Who does the refunded money for a present go to?

amother

Burgundy

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 11:20 am

Say you bought your child an expensive present (ie $200+ graduation present). After a few months, the item broke, and the store decided to repair it as well as refund you back $120.

Would you keep the money or give it to your child (or spend it on him/her in a different way)? In your response, please indicate whether you need the money or not (I think anyone who DOESN'T need the money would likely just give it to their child but am curious if people who need the money would too because they view the money as already "belonging" to the child).

octopus

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 11:35 am

The child is living in the parent's house. If the parents got the gift at a discounted price, yippee to them. I really feel if the child went and got the item repaired (if you are not living at home, your parents aren't exactly running to do repairs for you), then it goes to the kid. I don't think there is any right or wrong or moral or immoral decision in this scenario. I think you do what you think is right. However, I'm sure there is a halachic answer to this question, so maybe it pays to ask your LOR.

amother

Burgundy

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 11:36 am

amother wrote:

The item belongs to the child. So does any refund.

Let's put it this way. Let's say your parents had given you the item, and the same thing happened. Would you send them a check for the refund? If not, then why do you think that you would be entitled to it?

Honestly, if this happened with my parents, yes, I would definitely let them know what happened and offer to send them a check with the money for the refund (I can't imagine they'd accept it but if they would that would be fine with me.)

observer

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 11:48 am

amother wrote:

1. It's different, because halachically the child's possessions belong to the parents.
2. The child still has the same item, it's the parent that did the whole run around and hassle with the repair, which led to the refund.
3. I would tell them what happened, as a pp said, and offer to send them the money since I had the item, although I can't imagine they would take it.

Amarante

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 11:48 am

I don’t understand the issue. Of course the recipient who paid for the present and followed up keeps the money.

Why is this different than if she had bought something at a real bargain. Does she then have to pay the difference between list price?

I am genuinely confused by these questions regarding gifts between family. If my parents gave me something. Why would I even think my parents owed me money for a gift they had gotten s8me kind of discount on.

If I had given them the money to buy me something because I was too busy to shlep for some reason, then it would be a different story. But for a gift, all the recipient deserves is the object. And deserve isn’t really the right word but I couldn’t think of a better one. But if my parents give me a present and it breaks, do they have to buy me another one or refund me or pay me. The whole logic is befuddling to me. 🤔

mommy3b2c

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 12:02 pm

Amarante wrote:

Agree completely.

amother

Crimson

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 12:08 pm

Amarante wrote:

If I purchase something at a discount, that's the sum that I paid for it. I give the item to the recipient, and s/he has the item.

Here, the recipient has had the item for months. It broke. In addition to repair, the recipient was given a refund. Why does the gifter get the money back?

Under your scenario, if instead of a refund, the recipient, had been charged money to repair it, would the gifter be required to pay? Of course not!

What if it could not be repaired, and the recipient had to replace it? Would the gifter be required to replace it, if she intended that it last longer? Of course not.

In both cases, the gifter wouldn't be obligated to take action because when the gift was given, it was owned by the recipient, who could do whatever he wanted with it. Keep it. Sell it. Regift it. And, yes, benefit from a refund received months later.

Amarante

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 12:21 pm

amother wrote:

I can't respond to every scenario - but it's probably because I don't have a dysfunctional family. I mean that sincerely as my parents gifted us without strings as well as doing many other non-financial acts of giving for their children.

All I can say is that if my parents gave me a gift that broke and then was fixed and - especially if they handled all the shlepping and dealing with CS, I would have no expectation that they would pay me money they had received. Absolutely none at all and if they had offered it, I would have told my mother to buy herself something nice with it.

Again, I don't really comprehend a mentality which measures dollars and cents between parents and children on a level that seems to me to be more of a business transaction than an act of love between two family members.

ETA - I never thought of these kind of legal arguments regarding gifts and favors between my parents and myself nor did they. The only time legalities entered into our relationship was when they did their estate stuff because they wanted to be scrupulous in terms of how their estate was divided among the children - and grandchildren if a child predeceased them.

33055

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 12:29 pm

Amarante wrote:

This thread was alien to me also. Who cares where the money goes?

weasley

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 1:01 pm

Amarante wrote:

This is so true!

amother

Crimson

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 1:07 pm

Amarante wrote:

It funny, because I get the exact feeling (business transaction, not gift) from the idea of refunding money to the gifter. You're keeping records and track of who gave you what, and want to ensure that if you receive any additional benefits, they belong to the giver. While I figure it was a gift, they wanted me to have it, its mine now.