Anti vaxx magazine left on my porch

simcha2

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 5:31 pm

amother wrote:

Vaccines are the only product, that you cant sue the manufacturer, even if they sold a detective batch .

Since when do 9 yr old boys in Lakewood have wives & fool around with escorts ???

You never read medical textbooks I did, 1 hours worth of vaccine literature.

Why would you assume that? Not sure why you're amother. You are welcome to come to our house. The reading material in the bathrooms is all medical journals. I'm not getting into a contest with you, but reading a medical text book tells you nothing about the amount of time spent on something in medical school our continuing training.

SixOfWands

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 6:05 pm

amother wrote:

So you think that the recommended ages for vaccination should read:

Quote:

Gardasil, age 9. Except among the Orthodox Jews of Lakewood. We know that none of them would ever engage in dangerous z3xual activity. EVER. So they don't need it. Certainly not before puberty. Probably not after. Please note that this does not include the riff raff who also live in parts of Lakewood. Never know what they'll be doing.

In any case, vaccine research is generally done by scientists with doctorate degrees in cellular and molecular biology, biochemistry, or microbiology. MDs and ODs aren't taught how to conduct that research, because they aren't going to conduct that research.

BTW, 99% of what I know in my field didn't come from my school textbooks. I strongly suspect the same is true of doctors and immunologists.

amother

Apricot

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 7:11 pm

In response to posters and people IRL regarding the scant education regarding vaccinations that doctors have: It is beyond mind boggling to me how people who have absolutely no medical education are so sure what kind of education physicians have received. There is no semester titled vaccines. Immunizations encompass a broad spectrum of knowledge including immunology, microbiology etc all of which is studied in depth in medical school and beyond.
All that being said, much of medicine is deciding when the benefit outweighs the risk. Yes, there can be risks and side effects involved with vaccinating, which is why parents are given written information when they vaccinate. Nobody has claimed that vaccines are risk free but doctors do maintain that the benefit ABSOLUTELY outweighs the risks.
Oh, but I forgot. All you anti vaxxers are so much smarter and better educated than anyone else. Because of course Dr. Google knows best Rolling Eyes

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 7:37 pm

amother wrote:

Exactly. If people really understood what vaccines contain, they would not allow most of them to be injected into their babies. And of course there are a million articles about how rates of autism is skyrocketing and doctors are "not sure why". Really???

There are a lot - and I mean, A LOT - of articles examining potential causes for autism. There are plenty of articles that show a link between autism and:
1) pregnant mothers getting a virus. It can be the flu, it can be CMV, German Measles (here's where vaccines come in handy), etc.
2) the age of the mother
3) the age of the father
4) a type of herpes virus
5) air pollution
6) pesticides - but on a severe level, like working on a farm level
7) dozens of different genetic mutations
8) prenatal diabetes
9) prenatal bleeding
10) the use of psychiatric drugs during pregnancy

...and I can list about ten more. That we KNOW ABOUT. All of these factors have been tested using sophisticated statistical analysis, in addition to DNA and RNA sequencing. One thing that has been thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly debunked is the idea that vaccines are causing autism. The NIH kept throwing millions and millions of dollars into dis/proving that vaccines cause autism until the medical community cried enough, because all the answers were the same, and that money could be better used elsewhere.

You, internet person, should perhaps spend a few years on PubMed doing all this "research" to find out that doctors are constantly searching for the whys. And that your insinuations are tremendously insulting to the autism community.

If data and hard facts aren't your thing, here's a fun anecdote:
I have two autistic children. One I vaccinated, and one I didn't. Guess which one recovered and which one is severe?

flowerpower

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 7:43 pm

amother wrote:

People are tired of kids being sick all the time, from the chemicals and preservatives in vaccines. They're sharing what they learned on their journey of their kids being vaccine damaged. The stuff in there are facts - you can research them, or even take the pamphlet to the pediatrician and show it to him. (Don't expect more than "that's trash" from him though)

Someone I know well is as gullible as you. So she didn’t vaccinate her last 2 kids. They are FOREVER sick. She is by the dr weekly with them. So now she blames it on other stuff. She has to start giving shots in order for them to attend school. But she says they always have something that the dr can’t even give shots yet.

Ma3

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 7:52 pm

Didn't read through this entire thread, but the first question why it was left on the porch has a very simple answer, whether you are pro vax or not. Same reason why you get any free distributions on your porch. I get free weekly stuff on my front steps at least once a week. Why you got it is not your question. Your question is a lot deeper because you seem pretty pro vaccines and this free pamphlet must've raised your blood pressure levels. And just like anything that comes to your door, it's your choice if you want to read it or not. And if your kid brought it home, it might not be a to your liking but it's not treif. Choose to read it or toss it, just like with any junk mail. Wink

amother

Fuchsia

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 7:57 pm

Ma3 wrote:

Other stuff that comes free is an advertisement, contains an advertisement, or is soliciting a donation.

This is basically propaganda.

amother

Wheat

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 8:36 pm

Ex vaxxers, not anti vaxxers.

Ex vaxxers. People who gave their kids shots. Listened to their dr. Gave shots. Kids reacted badly. =no more shots.

There are almost no anti vaxxers, only EX VAXXERS.

Every single medication out there has potential side effects. Vaccines included. If you research the side effects and decide to go ahead with it, by all means. But at least research. Read the package insert.

amother

Blue

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 8:43 pm

amother wrote:

I've no idea if that's true. All the people I know who don't vaccinate, never did.

But I'll tell my story (amother because of the details). I've posted this before.

The day after dd's one year annual appointment she suddenly stopped breathing and had a 20 minute seizure. She spent several days in the hospital and was diagnosed with epilepsy.
As it was the day after her appointment one would obviously say her shots caused this terrifying event. Except, she had a virus so she didn't get the shots that day. The dr. wantedto hold off a couple of weeks until she was over it.
But in the normal course of events she would of had her one year vaccines and the next day have had a near death experience. Anyone would say they were related.

But correlation is not causation.

amother

Firebrick

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 9:18 pm

Ma3 wrote:

I’m genuinely curious
Most things that are left at my door are ads
This has no ads whatsoever
And I think that those are some pretty great lengths to go to to try to convince a complete stranger not to vaccinate their kids. I guess I underestimated the zeal of some people

amother

Yellow

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 9:33 pm

pesek zman wrote:

All sorts of things. We see the gamut from RSV to rare syndromes. I wasn't implying a direct corellation berween not vaccinating and their reason for admission but rather a corellation between not vaccinating and pockets of the frum (largely chassidish) patients

So basically nothing that has anything to do with vaccines? I'm not pro or anti but if you want to make a point about the devestation of not vaccinating you have to bring reason to believe they were worse off for it. There are no vaccines for RSV or "rare syndromes". There are vaccines for very specific diseases.

SpottedBanana

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 9:35 pm

Just putting it out there -- I am very pro-vax but I drew the line at Gardasil, for myself. Yes, I know I was taking a risk, but Gardasil has not been around for that long and therefore has not been in good longitudinal studies yet. We really can't know yet whether Gardasil causes cancer in the long term, but we do know a lot more for all the other mainstream vaccines as far as I know (I am not an expert on this so if I am wrong please link to a reputable scientific journal). Doctors of course recommend it because the benefit outweighs the risk for the vast, vast majority of the population, but I knew that if I had a cheating husband ch"v or one with an unrevealed "past" then STD's would be the least of my issues.

So let's leave Gardasil aside. I cannot for the life of me understand the opposition to well-studied vaccines any more than opposition to Tylenol. It's just scarier because it's injected, but while some parents may choose to use Tylenol more than others I don't see any pamphlets against Tylenol.

As for OP, unwanted pamphlets are part of life. Did you mean for this to become yet another vaccination debate thread, or are you more interested in discussing why a random anti-vaxer would put a pamphlet on your porch?

amother

Fuchsia

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 9:51 pm

amother wrote:

She never said a word about causation or correlation to disease. She posted to say that of the patients whose files cross her desk - of the subset that are not vaccinated - a disproportionately large number are frum. That’s it.

pesek zman

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 9:51 pm

amother wrote:

I wasn't at all making a point that their admission has anything to do with their not vaccinating. I AM making the point that we have a lot of chassidish patients who don't vaccinate. More so than other sub groups who dont. And it makes me crazy to be associated with such ignorance

amother

Fuchsia

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 9:59 pm

SpottedBanana wrote:

I think it was rather clear it was the bolded.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 10:02 pm

pesek zman wrote:

If you are so knowledgeable can you please find proof that one vaccine was ever tested against a real placebo ?

Or for how many days did they study the hep-B vaccine before they approved it ?

Why did this "placebo " contain aluminum & mercury ? BTW this experiment was made on Chasidish kids.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/.....70702

amother

Wheat

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 10:36 pm

pesek zman wrote:

Thanks for sharing that. It's hard to hide the truth for so long. People just want their kids to be healthy, but today, out kids are sicker than ever.

amother

Wheat

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 10:38 pm

amother wrote:

When I looked closer I saw that this was dedicated to a baby who died of SIDS 3 days after getting the dtap vaccine. Apparently her parents are convinced that the vaccine caused her death.
I guess it’s a way of coping with their grief so it kinda makes sense.

Anecdotal evidence is important to consider. Especially if it repeats itself over and over with different people.