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Forum
-> Children's Health
vintagebknyc
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 Mon, Nov 19 2018, 12:50 pm
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This Measles outbreak is such a Chillel Hashem I can't even.
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amother
Pewter
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 12:54 pm
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The France outbreak was much larger and did not involve religious Jews. This is only a Chillul Hashem for those with an agenda or a pre-existing bias.
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amother
Slategray
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 12:54 pm
| amother wrote: | | I'm having a hard time finding consistant information online. Can someone help me out and give me the numbers in terms of comparing how many measles cases there were before the vaccine, and what were the consequences of the measles, vs. what are the consequences of getting the vaccine. I want to better understand from a statistical standpoint what the debate is all about. |
Perhaps I'm smarter than you (referring to your headline).
The debate isn't about statistics.
Actually I'm not sure that there is a debate at all.
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amother
Pewter
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 1:31 pm
Found a statistic on measles miscarriage rates. This was a very small study (58 participants), and under 10% had spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) although these do not seem to have been definitively linked to measles (miscarriage happens absent measles as well). Still a significantly increased risk. Preterm delivery is also a potential side effect. (source)
The most sobering statistic is from New Zealand, on death rates in immunocompromised children: 50%. (source)
Although as stated measles is in general less dangerous than the flu, whether or not you choose to personally vaccinate, this should be a wake-up call to be careful of how your actions affect others. If you are not vaccinating, you should be taking concrete steps to avoid spreading disease to those at higher risk.
- If you are delaying or undecided about vaccination, you may decide that this is a good time to take the MMR.
- If you suspect that you were already exposed, ask your doctor about immune globulin (this costs $75 per dose vs. $21 per dose of vaccine), which is highly effective at preventing actual contraction of measles.
- If you still feel that measles is relatively benign and want the lifetime immunity the wild virus confers (a valid opinion), then proactively seek out exposure (measles party) and most importantly quarantine yourselves until no longer contagious.
Either way, you have an obligation to avoid harming others.
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hopeafterloss
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 1:45 pm
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OP, Thats the beauty in having a G-d. No, he does not want you to become an expert in every field. You dont have to understand aerodynamics to get on a plane, nor do you have to go to medical school to decide how to treat your family. Just do what is the normal hishtadlus is to do (In this case vaccines) and then Hashem will protect you from any harm! Yes, people do get injured from vaccines, but since they were doing the normal hishtadlus, that was something that was what Hashem Himself chose for that particular person. So it definitely takes a big burden off of you!
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pesek zman
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 2:08 pm
| vintagebknyc wrote: | | This Measles outbreak is such a Chillel Hashem I can't even. |
I work in a major NYC childrens hospital. We have our 3rd case of measles in 2 weeks on my floor alone. All chasidish. I can’t even hold my head up during rounds When they’re discussing these patients, I’m so embarrassed and don’t want to be associated with them in any way shape or form
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pesek zman
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 2:14 pm
| Sebastian wrote: | | Peek zman all unvaxxed? |
Yes. 2 infants (one got it from her unvaccinated father) and an adolescent (who got it from her unvaccinated teacher)
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NovelConcept
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 2:31 pm
Regarding the comment that the flu is less dangerous...
I think the fact that the measles is hyper-communicable to the extreme makes it on par in terms of danger.
The amount of people it can affect is ridiculous.
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amother
Pewter
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 2:40 pm
| NovelConcept wrote: | Regarding the comment that the flu is less dangerous...
I think the fact that the measles is hyper-communicable to the extreme makes it on par in terms of danger.
The amount of people it can affect is ridiculous. |
Fair enough, but I don't usually hear the same amount of hysteria when discussing the flu.
My point was to put this into perspective. It's not "no big deal", but neither is it as devastating as the terror and shame level on this board and IRL would have you believe.
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southernbubby
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 4:10 pm
| NovelConcept wrote: | Regarding the comment that the flu is less dangerous...
I think the fact that the measles is hyper-communicable to the extreme makes it on par in terms of danger.
The amount of people it can affect is ridiculous. |
where was the comment that the flu was less dangerous?
I did make a comment that I don't understand why anyone underestimates the dangers of the flu.
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southernbubby
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 4:20 pm
| hopeafterloss wrote: | | OP, Thats the beauty in having a G-d. No, he does not want you to become an expert in every field. You dont have to understand aerodynamics to get on a plane, nor do you have to go to medical school to decide how to treat your family. Just do what is the normal hishtadlus is to do (In this case vaccines) and then Hashem will protect you from any harm! Yes, people do get injured from vaccines, but since they were doing the normal hishtadlus, that was something that was what Hashem Himself chose for that particular person. So it definitely takes a big burden off of you! |
Because medical errors kill more people than measles or flu or just about anything, I think that we are well within our hishtadlus to question doctors and medicine.
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NovelConcept
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 5:03 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | where was the comment that the flu was less dangerous?
I did make a comment that I don't understand why anyone underestimates the dangers of the flu. |
Ooops. Typo, I meant measles.
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nchr
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 7:58 pm
| Maybe wrote: | | Even if true , if all young kids would have it , all moms would be immune. |
FYI, measles sort of used to "sweep" through areas every few years, so many people missed it here and there throughout childhood. It killed thousands of soldiers during the civil war.
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amother
Firebrick
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 8:18 pm
| hopeafterloss wrote: | | OP, Thats the beauty in having a G-d. No, he does not want you to become an expert in every field. You dont have to understand aerodynamics to get on a plane, nor do you have to go to medical school to decide how to treat your family. Just do what is the normal hishtadlus is to do (In this case vaccines) and then Hashem will protect you from any harm! Yes, people do get injured from vaccines, but since they were doing the normal hishtadlus, that was something that was what Hashem Himself chose for that particular person. So it definitely takes a big burden off of you! |
Let me try to wrap my head around what you're saying:
"Just do normal hishtadlus and hashem will protect you from harm!"
Huh? What world are you living in???
"When harm does come to a person after they did hishtadlus, it's what hashem chose for them so it takes the burden off?
Huh? What world are you living in???
Lastly, your entire argument doesn't apply because whether you agree or disagree, most people who don't vax are doing more hishtadlus than the typical person who is vaxxing.
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amother
Tan
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 8:29 pm
| pesek zman wrote: | | Yes. 2 infants (one got it from her unvaccinated father) and an adolescent (who got it from her unvaccinated teacher) |
Teacher?? See this is why adults should be checked and not allowed back to work without proof
And stop being ashamed. California had a breakout I think in disneyland nothing to do with Jewish community
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trixx
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 8:44 pm
| pesek zman wrote: | | Yes. 2 infants (one got it from her unvaccinated father) and an adolescent (who got it from her unvaccinated teacher) |
Adults - Unvaccinated or the vaccine they got when they were kids wore off and they never knew they had to get a booster?
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pesek zman
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 8:56 pm
| trixx wrote: | | Adults - Unvaccinated or the vaccine they got when they were kids wore off and they never knew they had to get a booster? |
I don’t know. She’s not my patient and I don’t work for DOH, but that’s a good question
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amother
Sienna
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Mon, Nov 19 2018, 9:41 pm
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