When do kids realize how rich/ poor we are?

chanchy123

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 9:20 am

amother wrote:

Of course, kids realize it even at a young age like 7 or 8 bec. Even "poorer" ppl have things they can't afford or lucky for them ppl are sponsoring vacations to Florida or after school classes....so if the child isobservant he or she will notice that she is different than her friends (even though her school and neighborhood is a big mix with mostly regular families on scholarship) so when my children ask me why can't they go to an after school class or why can't we buy better snacks??etc. Then, I dontsugarcoat.

I tell them we can't afford it but know that everyone is different wen u get older u will never be happy if u always look at others because there will always be ppl with more than you. I told my children that no, we can't afford it but we do have x y z and there are some kids that don't even have any food and I tel them about how we will give tzedaka.

So, some of my kids think we are "poor" and the others in their class are rich but really I explained that most in their classes are like us but we spend on different things.

The truth is bh we can pay for basics but we don't have most extras. But, I grew up much poorer and like someonelse explained, its about basics like I had to buy my own deodorant and had to spend my own money on chaggiga costs. I was embarrassed about not normal clothes so I stopped going to shabbatons. This affected my social life so much that ppl thought I was shy but really I withdrew because I was embarrassed.

Ppl who grew up rich may not notice bec maybe their parents acted "regularly". But, growing up poor, of course, kids notice and feel the difference even if the parents are happy, how will that child feel being different from everyonelse???

So, parents being happy, doesn't take away the negative feelings the kids feel from being different. Even in poor schools/neighborhoods, its still hard for kids because somehow a lot of these pp still have things"".

Liking this is just not enough.

amother

Papaya

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 9:42 am

I am looking back now, and realise I knew around age 8, when I decided that all the kids with a store bought costume for Purim were rich, and that we must be poor.
It didnt bother me at the time.
My parents didnt need to say anything, I just put two and two together (this was thirty years ago, before it became trendy and crafty to create elaborate homemade costumes. Then it was just called saving money, and they were simple costumes).

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 2:12 pm

amother wrote:

I realized at a very young age that we were less well off than others, mostly because my parents often spoke openly about finances in front of us kids. They also had me in a school that catered to a well off crowd. I was ALWAYS anxious about money as a result and was terrified to ask them for anything. When I brought this up to my mom as an adult she told me that I had overreacted and that we were never in a position of struggling with money.

YES! This is totally my experience. My mother was literally obsessed with money - she would constantly say things like "we can't afford that.", and would discuss who the rich people in the community was, and how much they spent on such and such.

I always thought we were on the brink of bankruptcy, and was too terrified to ask them for anything, including school fees. I would skip the shabbatons and the yearbooks. I never went to camp. My mom also to this day says that I'm delusional and that she doesn't know why I didn't ask her for those things.

To this day, I'm super anxious about money, and I make my husband take care of all the financials. Seeing a single bill we have to pay makes me think that we're going broke.

amother

Blush

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 3:48 pm

amother wrote:

I didnt know till I got married. My parents N.E.V.E.R. talked about money. They didnt waste it on lavish vacations or fancy clothes. They gave (and still give) a ton of tzedaka that we didnt know about. Weddings were nice- not fancy. My parents drive Hondas because they were having a good deal.
We never felt insecure or that we didnt have any money when all our friends were going on vaca for midwinter or pesach or succos. We never felt "under privilaged" because my parents wouldn't take us out to eat in fancy restaurants or buy us the most expensive shabbos outfit.
Little did we know, we had more money than any of my friends families will ever have.

But yet, you knew you were "comfortable."

To answer OP's question (and I partially direct it to this amother), I knew in 8th grade when I was telling a good friend of mine that our car died, so now we have no car. My friend was not the lavish vacation fancy car type, but looked confused and said, "so why don't you buy a new car?" Then I realized we were poor and she was rich. She wasn't a snob at all...just didn't understand why we weren't buying something we needed. Someone who grows up "comfortable" will feel the same way. I would imagine you would have said something similar to a poor friend.

renslet

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 4:51 pm

I think that two kids in the same family can have totally different experiences.
We grew up with very little money, and yes we got clothing in black garbage bags ( I used to think that we were so lucky because we got first choice and after we had taken what we wanted, other people would come and look through the bags) and very rarely got new things.
But, it's all about how you present things and what priorities are for you. Seminary and yeshiva was a priority, I remember friends who bought new clothes every week saying that they are not going to sem because it's too expensive and my parents were totally " if you are interested in learning we will do all we can to facilitate".
We didn't get new backpacks but my father always got us new seforim so we didn't have to use leftover from siblings.
We babysat the entire year to pay for camp, we had fleishigs once a week, but I don't remember thinking that we were poor. I do remember thinking that some people ( who ate chicken during the weekday must be very rich)
At the height of the recession my mother made rolls and vegetable soup for dinner cuz that's all she had. Years later we asked her why she stopped making it, she burst into tears and said she only made it cuz it was literally the last thing in the closet, she didn't think it was proper dinner, meanwhile we all thought it was great.
I will say that growing up in England there were a few things that helped us, family allowance ( we often would pick it up and then shop for groceries) free healthcare and a very low mortgage.
Some of my siblings always wanted more and more stuff, they for sure noticed and had a hard time, for me I never felt any different then anyone else.
I also had a really rich friend growing up ( her grandparents have hosted the queen) and she sometimes would comment, just ask your parents to buy this or that and we would just look at her and laugh that she was so clueless.

amother

Amber

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 5:02 pm

amother wrote:

Funny, some people never learn no matter how old they get. My friend the other day said, "so when are you moving out of that apartment and into a house already?" Um, when I can afford it, maybe....? Banging head

southernbubby

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 5:54 pm

renslet wrote:

Really good post

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 8:07 pm

All of my children think that we are rich (although we are anything but). If I say we can’t afford something, my daughter will respond “Oh, you’re just saying that because you don’t believe I should have it. . .” My teenaged daughter has taken to telling everyone that her parents are ”secret millionaires,” who are keeping it secret, so their children won’t grow up spoiled. (“Sort of like a reverse Mama’s Bank Account” as she puts it.). I’m not sure how much she believes it. When they ask us if we’re rich, we say that we’re Pirkei Avos rich - and then we do our best to live that way.

amother

Rose

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 9:03 pm

Feeling like our family was the anomaly based on these replies. I honestly never thought about our financial status one way or another growing up, and I'm guessing if someone has asked me back then (no one did) what I thought about it, I probably would have said I thought we don't have any extra money. And I did have classmates who talked about their "maids", fancy cars, vacations, etc. We lived in a diverse community and went to a diverse school.

We all started working from at least age 12, parents didn't buy clothes other than the very basics, like socks, underwear and undershirts. Everything else we wore, we got as hand me downs from people in the community who had outgrown it already. They got day old bread from the bakery, we paid for any class trips/requirements from the money that we earned, etc. I could go on and on. We did go on vacation once a year, but we did that on the money we collected all year from recycling cans and bottles. Extra incentive to be environmental!

None of us resented this or felt like we were the outcasts among our peers. I always attributed that to my parents' excellent parenting, but perhaps they were also given exceptional children in that regard. What

We were brought up in a happy, loving household and all remain close today. As an adult, I asked a younger sibling how he felt about all his classmates having their own phones, iPods, etc while he had none of that, and he responded genuinely that he felt great about it because while their parents paid for all of their gadgets, he was earning his own way, and adulthood wouldn't hit him as hard as a result.

I discovered well into adulthood that our parents are pretty well off and plan to leave us all a nice-sized (for us) yerusha. They should live and be well and have whatever they need for themselves! I know they wouldn't hesitate to help us out if we needed it, and I think that they are where they are today because they lived like they lived back in the day. Oh, they did place utmost importance on paying full tuition and I know now that while there were a couple tough years when they couldn't, they made sure to pay it all back once they could.

While there are some other things I might change about my childhood if I could, I would never change anything about this. I think our parents did a wonderful job and know my many siblings concur.

amother

Mauve

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 9:57 pm

I grew up very poor yeshivish in a community that didn't care about wealth. So on one hand, I'm happy in my community there was less focus on designer brands. (although come to think of it, some kids in my class did care, but I just didn't.) I didn't care if I wore clothing that other people already wore. Maybe I was actually the original hipster.

On the other hand, I remember being embarrassed when my mother gave me food stamps to buy nosh for a school trip and the cashier had to call the manager because I didn't bring the whole book. I suddenly became aware of kids my age (probably 12/13) behind me in line. My father used to "borrow" our money to pay for stuff and then say it was really his because we were minors so he didn't have to pay us back.

Money can "not matter" when you don't have anxiety over where your next meal is coming from or whether you're not going to have a roof over your head next week.

amother

Babypink

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 11:38 pm

I grew up comfortable. We had what we needed although I know there were times when my parents had less than comfortable, we kids didn't tknownor feel it. Bh my parents make a nice parnassa nowadays. We grew up having what we needed but we we're never into brand names or fancy stuff. Bshita we only ate fleishig once a week for supper ( they do that till today).
Bh dh and I make a decent parnassah and can afford what we need to. My kids realize we have what we need. We live in a nice sized house but in a brand new neighborhood so got a great deal on it. (worth over $300k more than I paid). I don't splurge a lot. Just my nature.
I am getting a new car tomorrow that I am financing. My seven year old who is the oldest started asking me lots of questions about if I am buying or leasing etc. He is picking up a lot just from listening ( we were deciding if we should go with a used or brand new, we decided on a new one for various reasons,). I don't even know what is normal. My parents never ever spoke about money to us but my in laws we're way way more open so I got used to speaking more openly.....

amother

Bisque

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 6:22 am

chanchy123 wrote:

The thing is that poverty means you can't afford the things that you need. If you can't afford luxuries but don't struggle to afford necessities you are not poor, you might be less well off than your neighbors but you're doing fine, keep up the good attitude, be fiscally smart and happy with your lot in life.
When you are poor, a good attitude is important, but it won't fix your leaky roof, out won't pay your dentist bills.
Why would or should a parent have to tell their kid they "don't need to own a car" for instance, when they clearly do.
What's wrong with parents saying I'd love for you to have a new Shabbat stress but I can't afford one right now. Why don't we see if we can find something nice at the gmach.
I would love for us to go on a family trip but we just can't afford it - let's do something fun at home.
Or whatever it is. There is nothing wrong with new clothes or family trips.
I can't see any reason to spend 1200 dollars on a stroller. That's not what being poor is about - that's just making good choices. Being poor means you have no choice.

I believe telling kids : "we can't afford this and that " causes anxiety.

My husband and I were poor when we got married. And I mean really poor, he took out a loan so we could afford food. We didn't have a car (I guess you would say we needed on) but we got 2 used bikes instead and yes it was annoying to go grocery shopping in the rain or snow with the bikes but that's all we could afford so we accepted it. And I never told myself: I can't afford a car. I thought that the bike gave me the exercise I needed and after a while I didn't mind the rain so much.
Our windows were terrible, there was literally wind coming through. We couldn't afford to get them fixed so I knitted scarfs and laid them in front of all the windows.
Look at kids in Africa... They don't have toys, they play with sticks .. but they smile.

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 6:25 am

In a so-called “blended” family, kids may know early on as there are often discrepancies in wealth between siblings. In my family for example, some children have trust funds that will set them up for life and enable them to easily go to Yeshivot/Sem/College. For others it is an unknown if they will be able to go financially. It is hard to keep such divergent financial means and possible resentment a secret from everyone.

southernbubby

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 8:18 am

Ladies, I wish that all of you who grew up happy but poor could collaborate and write a book so that the spoiled and entitled among us could realize that happiness isn't about living in a big house or wearing the latest designer fashions.

It bothers me that the frum community has bought so heavily into excessive consuming. We advocate having large families, sending them to tuition based schools, making them expensive simchas while telling them not to worry about parnassa, give lots of tzedukah, and host lots of guests. It makes me wonder how on Earth my great grandparents made Purim before the holidays became so commercialized.
How do we make our children happy when everyone else has the latest new costumes and our kids are scrounging the attic for old ones?
You ladies have some excellent answers to these questions and in my overly judgemental opinion, you owe it to the frum world to teach them how to be frum when you don't have much money.

keym

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 8:51 am

amother wrote:

Really, though. Its beautiful to reframe it for yourself.
But telling your kids they don't need braces when they are old enough and astute enough to realize their teeth are horribly twisted but you can't afford it..... That just comes off as heartless.
I know. My parents weren't dirt poor, but there were a lot of us and very little money. They used to tell us all the time that we had for what we needed. And maybe as a kid that was true. But as a teen, I had a true need to wear an unstained coat, to wear clothes that fit properly, for braces, for a math tutor. This wasn't about designer- Target would have been fine. And its very delegitimizing to be told that my needs aren't true needs. I would have rather been told how they wish they could, but can't afford it.
Also, being told that I don't NEED something created a shita that I couldn't use my babysitting money. Because I don't need that. So of course I wouldnt spend my money on "luxuries". Being told they would have wanted to buy but couldn't would have given me the guilt free freedom to buy it if I felt it was important.

Posting under my name. Waiting for the tomatoes. Can't Believe It

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 9:59 am

keym wrote:

No tomatoes from me. I agree. I don’t think I can remember my mother saying “you don’t need that”. She allowed us to spend our own money on (almost) anything.
She did voice her disagreement with designer things (I grew up in the era of Champion sweatshirts. Boy did she have plenty to say about that tiny C on the sweatshirt).
I think it gave me a healthy outlook on money. I’ve done my own nails more than I’ve gotten manicures but I’ve gotten plenty of manicures in my life. I decide when I want to spend the money on that and when I want to use it for something else. But I don’t ever feel guilty for buying something I would like. [at least when I was single and supporting myself.]
Once in a while if one of my kids wants an excessive extra pair of shoes (when he/she has a dozen pairs already) I will say “do you really need that?” But they are allowed to spend their money on almost anything they want too.