S/O chesed and $ | Imamother

Mommyg8

Wed, Jun 26 2019, 11:54 pm

Sequoia, where people spend their money is a matter of priorities. I was just telling my husband that I would love to do some traveling... from the look on his face it seems I'm going to be traveling alone Smile

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Lots of women enjoy making cute and creative shalach manos, and for them it's an experience. Public confession - I'm not creative at all, my shalach manos alternate between homemade cake and bought wafer rolls... but I know women who spend half the year on designing their shalach manos. I have to say I enjoy getting them... yes, I consider Purim an experience. It's actually my favorite day of the year....

To clarify, I am not really trying to prove any point. I think the whole world is materialistic, I'm not sure that Lakewood has a monopoly. Either way, it really doesn't bother me.... when I win the lottery, I'm going straight to the bookstore Smile

. Maybe that makes me materialistic in my own way, I don't know. I guess we all have our things that we would spend money on...

amother

Purple

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 12:00 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Yes? They're buying $3000 shaitels? They're going to a hotel for pesach- as a community norm? They're vacationing in the Bahamas? Maybe your relatives are unusually wealthy (so why are they slumming in Forest Park?), but this is definitely not the norm in any of these areas.

And why are the takanah wedding halls all booked solid?

The takNah wedding halls are booked solid bec they don’t only make takanah weddings. Most weddings today aren’t takanah weddings. The second you add on an extra photographer you can’t be considered a takanah wedding and the price goes up. Which hall in Lakewood only makes takanah weddings?

Mommyg8

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 12:02 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

Oh come on, obviously I wasn't saying I check their taxes. But being that she said they are all 2 income familes with professional degrees I think it's fair to assume that financially they are more well off than people in Westgate.

And I didn't think you were asking me because my initial post wasn't responding to you and I never claimed that they live extravagent lives. I was just confirming something else another poster said.

But while agree with you that there's not a lot of vacations, I still firmly believe that the obsession with materialism, on a much smaller scale, is more than other places with people of similar hashkafah (well clearly not I guess...) and financial state. But I really don't think what I have to say is productive so going to sign off now. Have a great night!

I don't know enough about both communities to know which community has more emphasis on materialism. That's why I asked my question. I suspect that those of us who live in the good old USA are all fairly obsessed with materialism... but I really don't know for sure. Ok, and I guess I still don't know.

But I do get annoyed when everyone seems to KNOW that there is more emphasis on materialism in the yeshivish world. How do you KNOW? Was there a scientific study?

amother

Orchid

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 12:04 am

allthingsblue wrote:

The younger yeshivish crowd definitely has higher material expectations.

I see my married nieces and nephews. They like nice stuff. Nice clothing and carriages and furniture.
Baby and kids clothing they buy end of season. They may run around like mad and their kids look like a magazine cover but it’s all at a major discount.
Carriages are floor model or used (they would never buy a graco but also don’t pay full price)
Sheitel s post marriage are from sales.
Furniture as their families grow is Craigslist.
They aren’t flying anywhere or taking major vacations. Local Parks in Lakewood are overflowing over bein hazmanim.
They are the young couples who start out renting walking distance to yeshiva because of one car and eventually end up in brookwood or Lakewood commons.
They live beautiful and won’t do with less - but on a dime.
My sister in laws have all made the cheapest weddings possible. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t gorgeous. They end up costing way less then a small affair in a tent. And when there are 300 guests 90% of that is aunts, uncles, siblings and cousins.

(Btw tzinius doesn’t have to cost. My girls are dressed tzinius and fashionable. $8 tees, $10 skirts, $14 dresses. No shell needed. My tops this summer were $13-20. You just have to know the stores that are priced right).

amother

Natural

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 12:10 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I'm what the world would call Yeshivish (nothing non jewish in my house, tights/stockings always). Lakewood wouldn't call me yeshivish though (husband is Daddy not Tatty, shaitel a little longer than yeshivish Lakewood) so I don't know where that puts me but I wasn't bashing yeshivishness I was bashing Lakewood. I know not nice, I'll really try to go now. And I dont know, I can only say what I see and it's pretty obvious as an outsider coming from a pressure free out of town community now living in a pressure free community in ny.

Mommyg8

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 12:15 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

I know, Lakewood is the new New York. The old Lakewooders are NOT happy, I can tell you that...

But honestly I really don't see Lakewood as being super yeshivish at all, nowadays. I think Flatbush has definitely come to Lakewood, and is pretty much taking over. At least that's what I see. I think what you're all talking about is the pressure of living in a complex... there's more than enough material in that for another thread, probably a book. From what I hear, there's tons of pressure to conform... which bothers me more than the materialism, to be honest.

amother

Purple

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 4:16 am

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

You make no sense. If they are great at shopping sales then let’s say a bugaboo they can get on sale for $800 if they got a Graco they can get it on sale for $100 they still would spend way less money buying a Graco.

And if they are so frum then they shouldn’t prioritize so much on their kids clothes it shouldn’t be so important to them.

southernbubby

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 8:17 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I am a BT. I apologize in advance, don't mean to offend anyone and wish that everyone who is in need of $ shall receive it soon.

BUT .....We have a lot of chesed organizations, we all donate money. I live in a reasonably large OOT community and we have at least 50 diff gemachs, moving boxes, baby items, chairs for simcha, etc. There are chesed organizations that help wtih food, rent, funds for weddings, funds to set up an apt, wigs, infertility, etc and etc.

This is amazing, but this type of "help" doesnt really exist in the non frum world, and yet somehow they manage. Yes, there are charities, my work collects school supplies in August and toys in November for xmas for underprivileged kids. After college, I attended my share of backyard weddings, where the bride wore a $50 dress from TJMaxx, they served desserts/cheap take out from the local grocery store, and they had no one to buy them linens and things. Yet, somehow they all managed. I understand there are special cases, illiness, etc, but I was raised with a simple notion that if you cant afford it, you make without.

The way things are in the frum world bother me and I cant reconsile it in my head. Secular people who cant afford nice things, somehow manage to do without. Yet, in our communities, for some unknown to me reason I detect this unhealthy obsession (entitlement?) with things (see the recent thread about what things to buy for overnight camp). I dont understand where it is coming from, and what can we do to really provide help to those who need and discourage the materialistc notions. Any ideas as what causes this and how to raise my kids without, it would be appreaciated. Thanks ladies.

I really got sticker shock when I became frum but there really was and is a money crowd among secular Jews. Joining the community in any way involved the same materialistic, snobbish behavior that exists in the frum community.

amother

Ruby

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 8:25 am

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

I bought my bugaboo used in great condition for $125. Yes, I could have bought a used graco for less, but I've used both strollers and the Graco does not last nearly as long in good condition. It's also much less comfortable for me to push, and that's a priority for me in a stroller. Anyway I sold the bugaboo once I was done with it for exactly what I paid, since it holds its value so well. (I didn't love the bugaboo so for later kids I bought a different high quality stroller for less than $150 on Craigslist.)

Mommyg8

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 8:39 am

allthingsblue wrote:

Mommyg8- they don't go to hotels and the Bahamas but they do spend on sheitels, shoes, belts, strollers, baby layette, clothing...

I'm not arguing with that at all. I was just wondering where the assumption comes from that the yeshivish world is MORE materialistic than other frum communities.... my feeling is they just spend on different things. High end shoes are a lot cheaper than going to a hotel for Pesach, for example.

As for shaitels - to be honest I just recently bought a high end shaitel for myself, for the first time, and there really is a difference. Especially if you wear your shaitel every day, etc.

As for strollers - the higher end strollers are much better quality, and many feel that they will get their money's worth as they plan on having a lot of children...

FYI, I'm at the age where my children and my friends children are getting married, so I do know what the current trend is. The second and third generation kollel/klei kodesh are not generally living that way, unless they have some sort of trust fund (and surprisingly enough, many really do!!!).

Mommyg8

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 8:47 am

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

My sister just bought a high end carriage (sorry I don't remember the company, I'm not really into the parsha these days) on eBay for around $150. Probably the same price as a Graco, I think. She said it was in perfect condition. The Gracos are not perfect - I know because thats the carriage I always used. They don't last as long as a high end carriage, they don't lay flat, and they don't wheel as well.

amother

Purple

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 8:47 am

Lakewood by far is the most materialistic town out there.

On Rosh Hashana in bmg Rabbi olshin got up by his speech and was crying real tears and said that this town is kulo gasmias meaning it’s full of gasmiaus. He said that years ago people moved to Lakewood to get away from gasmiaus but today it’s the opposite it’s a real problem and it’s just getting worse and worse.

Now with the chassidim moving in the town is really changing because they don’t care about what bmg saids or does they are bringing their own schools too so this town will really go down.

One example is that Rabbi Aron kotler never let Lakewood have an Eiruv now that the chasssiim moved in they don’t care about what rav Aron said and they are putting in an Eiruv.

Mommyg8

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 8:52 am

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

Re the bolded: on what facts do you base this statement on? That was my original question.

As for people not following the Roshei Yeshivah - I know I'm going to get stoned for saying this, but Rabbi Forscheimer is the poseik of Lakewood and he paskened that you can't wear long shaitels. How many people listen to him, maybe five women altogether?

amother

Brunette

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 8:54 am

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

Yes- its always “the chassidim”...

amother

Purple

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 9:08 am

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

Have you driven around town? Donyou see the homes going up all around town? Lakewood probably is building the most amount of stunning homes at such a fast pace I don’t think Brooklyn or Monsey r the five towns has so many beautiful homes going up so fast they might have from years ago? The kind of cars being driven in his town? The fact that everyone that lives in these beautiful homes with gorgeous pesach kitchens all picked themselves up this year and went to Orlando or a hotel for pesach. What about he summer this whole town is packing out to go to the country?

Besides for the little things like every kid needs a Michelle watch at the age of 12 and Tiffany Jewelery and expensive shoes and Marc Jacobs brief case. I can go on and on. Seriously what he kids want at such a young age is not normal. And what do you expect all their classmates have it.

mig100

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 9:18 am

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

What do they gave against an eruv?

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 9:19 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Do you realize the big difference between going to a hotel vs getting expensive shoes/sheitels/clothing/furniture.....???

Ppl who are hardworking may spend a lot to go to a hotel. But, its to make it easier bec after all, after working hard in their jobs, its less stressful to go to a hotel with food prepared for you and cleanup being done etc.....

That is very different than others who are spending a lot on sheitels...clothes....because those spending a lot on clothes/sheitels....are becoming obsessed with the latest "hot item" that is "in style". Not only does life become all about them and their materialism focus on "looking just right". But, constantly having the newest "thing" means constsntly spending money. Its never ending and does take over ones life such that judging others who dont buy those things becomes the norm.....this is very different than going to a hotel for pesach or on vacation to get a break from grueling long work hours!!!

And, I wonder how many ppl get the latest carriage because its better or bec its the in thing that "everyone must have".

Mommyg8

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 9:28 am

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

Whenever my new york friends say that put houses are nicer than theirs, I tell them - you can buy two fancy Lakewood houses for the price of a doghouse in New York. So you can move here... for some reason noone has yet taken me up on the offer.

Which starts an interesting question - is it better to spend more money so that you can live more simply Scratching Head

? Most of the houses being built are not particularly expensive. And like I said, the vast majority of Lakewood lives in very inexpensive homes - think Forest Park, Lakewood Commons, Westgate, presidential estates....

Which school is this? So I should know where not to send my kids...