S/O chesed and $ | Imamother

ora_43

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 4:46 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I'm curious. How many people have to attend for it to be an "actual wedding celebration." What other requirement are there for an "actual wedding celebration." Apart from the actual words and a ketuba. I mean, my friend recently got married (second marriage) in a dress she picked up at Kohls. Is she not married?

I said wedding celebration. Not wedding.

A wedding is valid if there are witnesses.

A wedding is being celebrated if the couple's family (such as it is) and close friends are there with them, singing, dancing, and generally making merry.

Quote:

How is it an alternative? Well, as I understand what you said, people who aren't religious can shack up if they can't afford a wedding. Religious people can't, so its important to give them tzedaka for the poufy white dress and full dinner and dancing for a bunch of people whom you probably haven't gone out for coffee with in the past 6 months. But none of those things are needed for a marriage. If you can't afford a big wedding, have a small one.

Yad Eliezer's tzedaka-funded wedding package is 12,000 shekels. So, like, $3,500. If you think you can get a fancy dress and full dinner and invite random neighbors you don't know for that kind of money, you're dreaming.

Sources, please, for people asking for tzedaka to get those things.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 5:15 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Interesting because I was sitting on a bench in a Crown Heights playground a few hours ago and a non-frum looking woman (Superman tattoo)and her frum looking little boy sat down there. She said that he goes to a charter school and she has no money for afternoon Hebrew school or any other type of Jewish education and all expect some payment so this boy gets nothing while tzedukah goes for large weddings. OTOH, it's a specific mitzvah to make a chasson and kallah happy so I would say that communities could set a standard for tzedukah weddings such as capping the crowd size.

There's always going to be arguments about where community resources should go. Should tzedukah go to give mothers of twins aids 24/7 while other mothers of multiple children close in age get nothing? Should tzedukah fund hair bows while a mom with special needs children live in a croweded apartment? Should tzedukah fund furnishings for entire houses while that boy can't afford Hebrew school?

southernbubby

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 5:35 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

If all the tzedukah went through a federation that decided how to allocate funds, then they could fund whatever fits their criteria. When I grew up, we had no money but was told that the local Conservative shul absolutely would not charge poor kids who wanted to attend USY functions and didn't accept poverty as an excuse for not joining. I don't think my parents paid for shul dues but my brother was bar mitzvahed and my sister and I were both confirmed. This was because they allocated charitable funds for education and most people paid so very few attended for free.

mig100

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 6:05 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you everyone for your insights. It was an interesting read. I think few points were missed or ignored.

1. I am not advocating not sending kids to frum schoold, I am wondering as to why schools dont prep them for the real world.

2. Why dont we teach that going without is ok. It is acceptable to not have the latest whatever, or explaining to your child that you cannot afford X (Perhaps, that will also teach them financial responsibility).

3. Dont mean to offend once again, but I think there needs to be a "hard stop" or "reevaluation" at some point for all families receiving "assitance." Ex. if you are kollel family on your 8th kid living in a 2 bed, perhaps, things need to be reevaluated. If you are poor/uneducated and cant get a job, perhaps we send you to trade school or something, instead of supporting you for decades. I am just afraid that at some point the communities will no longer be able to sustain themselves.

4. Tsedakah doesnt bother me. We give regulalrly and as generously as we can, but I think tsedakah is for the _real_true_ poor who need food/necessities (I.e. electric biils, medical costs). Tsedakah is not for bugaboos or 4k wigs.

5. This is not about Lakewood. I do not live anywhere near the east coast.

Let the rock throwing begin:)

no rock throwing from me Smile

op- it looks like a lot of topics have been adressed in this thread and very few actually addressed your original questions.

I have not read through all of them - yet one thing I can see from the amoutn of responses is that this definitely struck a raw nerve in a lot of people.

ill bite and adress each point- and get ready for some rocks

I grew up mainstream bais yaakov and understand as an outsider our system can be puzzeling and even disturbing

1) to some extent it does. to some extent it doesnt ( as evident from many threads on email about those suffering financially as a result of the system) there are many answers I can give- bottom line- our school system is not perfect. its is far far far from it.

this is something I have thought about a lot and if you want to discuss this more - I can gladly do it via pm. id rather not do it publically- as I anticipate a lot of reactions to what I would post -and dont have the time or interest to respond all of the imas who will twist what I wrote

2) we definitely should. im relatively young- yet I see a big difference from how I grew up and the kids "no-days" this is something I think about a lot. I dont think im the only one.

3) similar to #1- some people do reevalute, some dont, again- I can discuss this more via pm if you want. bottom line- our system is not perefect

4) I understand that your problem is not giving tzedaka- its the reality that we have created a system that is dependent on it. its a problem.

thats it for now.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 6:13 pm

southernbubby wrote:

UJA is such a federation and they fund churches. You will never get a consensus. I rather fund hairbows for Jews than the church that support those that would murder jews during the crown heights riots. That still bothers me that Jewish money supported those people.

If we got rid of the over the top materialism including mothers who worry about teeny boppers' status symbols, baby fashion, and over large expensive weddings, we could afford career training and college.

southernbubby

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 6:43 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

Probably most of us don't give huge amounts to any one cause but I agree that money for job training should be at the top of the list.

amother

Ruby

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 8:12 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

Every person has a right to decide where his tzedaka money is going. Criticizing an organization won't help a new organization get started, only action will.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 10:23 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

Every person has a right to decide where his tzedaka money is going. Criticizing an organization won't help a new organization get started, only action will.

Community resources should always be open for discussion. Some tzedukah organizations are purely for luxury items or the money is used to fund churches. Knowing UJA money goes to non-Jews is an important conversation.

Also if there are needs, not wants, that aren't being met, that should also be discussed. Transparency is also important. How much of the money collected gets to the beneficiaries and how much goes to the collectors. This is something I want to know before I decide where to donate.

Critiquing is valid. Wouldn't you want to know if families are going without shoes and tzedukah money is being spent on bows?

amother

Ruby

Thu, Jun 27 2019, 10:33 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

I think it's very important to know where MY tzedaka money goes, as I said. I truly don't see a purpose in critiquing any organization, although it's certainly valuable to know what needs are not being met if you're in a position to help meet those needs. What makes it a community resource if no one is obligated to donate?