S/O are YOUR children grateful?

ShishKabob

Thu, Aug 22 2019, 10:48 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

It’s a mistake for parents to expect gratitude from children, especially from teenagers, who are almost genetically programmed to be self-centered. I agree with the poster who said it doesn’t usually happen till they have kids of their own.

I disagree with this post.
Gratitude is something that must be taught together with brushing teeth. I know that for some brushing teeth is more important.
It's not necessarily because the parents need it, it's necessary for the child to grow up with a proper sense of thankfulness and a with a healthy attitude in life.
Children that are taught that 'skimt zei nisht', grow up way better than children that think that the world is there to cater to their every whim.
I can't believe that someone believes this.
You wouldn't have half the marriage problems if adults were conditioned as children to always be grateful for every single thing in life, and to express the thanks as well.
I don't think you have to wait to have your own kids in order to be appreciative.
I think that the magnitude of the appreciation expands, as you raise your own children.
Hakaras Hatov is a basic premise in Yiddishkeit.

Chayalle

Thu, Aug 22 2019, 11:06 am

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

My father used to tell me not to thank him because he was doing things for me, he was just doing his job as a parent. My kids do not have to thank me because I do things for them as a parent. I chose to have them and it is my obligation to ensure that they are taken care of. Even if they get extra luxuries they still don't have to thank me for it as it comes with no strings attached. I am happy that I can give them things and make their lives easier and better and don't want anything in return.
The sense of entitlement from some of the parents on imamother is astonishing. You had the choice to have kids, you provide for them unconditionally without expecting gratitude or thank you's in return. These kids are your gifts from Hashem to take care of, did you thank Hashem for giving them to you? Do you take the time to thank the kids for allowing you to be their parents? So many people can't have children or lose their children, why do you take them for granted if you do have them and expect them to bow down to you instead of the other way around?

That is not to say that they shouldn't be saying thank you to strangers who are kind to them and help them with things but parents who expect thanks for doing their job and giving their kids things should reevaluate themselves to see why they want a conditional relationship with their kids.
Yes, I know this is not the popular opinion so go ahead and throw your tomatos at me, I can handle it Cool

I was just thinking some more about this.

What would you say about a husband who didn't thank his wife for everything she does for their home, since it's her job?

My sister has a young friend who is divorced after much suffering in a difficult marriage...they tried therapy, and the therapist asked the young man what nice things his wife does for him, and he said nothing. All the things she does - cooking, laundry, etc...are jobs a wife should do anyway.

Kiwi13

Thu, Aug 22 2019, 11:22 am

My kids are little (under 4), but they're all good about saying please and thank you. We insist on it and we model it for them. One of them actually appears to show real gratitude - he's only 20 months old, but from his earliest days he would get this expression on his face when we held him and sang to him, as if to say, "how did I get so luck to get all this love?" It's hard to explain in words, but this kid is pure love and hakaras hatov. He's significantly developmentally delayed, diagnosed with autism very young, etc. and for the longest time we didn't know if he understood language at all, even his name. Then one day, at around 16 months old, he surprised us with his first word, "thank you" ("googoo") in response to getting a fruit loop. Since then, he says thank you for everything - when we pick up something he dropped, if he gets a new toy, if he's eating something he likes. He will pause between bites or while playing, to express his thankfulness again and again. If he thinks we didn't hear him, he will chase us down saying thank you until we acknowledge his thanks and say you're welcome. He also gives the best spontaneous affection out of any child I've ever met. He's one of a kind, but he absolutely makes me believe that even very young children can feel and show real gratitude.

chestnut

Thu, Aug 22 2019, 11:38 am

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

No, no, no. Absolutely disagree. 2 sides of the coin. As a parent, it's your obligation to provide very basics. Of course, you want to give them the moon and everything else, and that's good and natural.
As a child, they have to appreciate everything you do for them, big and small. Hakaras hatov is a major concept. Why do you give tips/thank you cards to teachers/counselors if it's their job? Do you expect your husband to appreciate your suppers/shabbos food, laundry, cleaning? Are you grateful to your parents for everything they did for you (despite what your father said)?

ShishKabob

Thu, Aug 22 2019, 11:55 am

I look at it like Kibbud Av Vem. You have to instill it in your children and demand the respect. (I'm not talking about being mevater and letting your child sit in your chair, or not to get up everytime you enter the room and so on) Not because 'you' as a person or parent needs it. You have to do it because it's from the Torah and it's an obligation for you to teach your children these halachos.
You are obligated as a parent and as a frum yid. Regardless of how you perceive the bracha of children. It's not a personal thing here.

amother

Navy

Thu, Aug 22 2019, 12:35 pm

chestnut wrote:

We tip counselors and waiters instead of paying them. It's part of a larger culture of demeaning certain types of workers and making them feel dependent on charity instead of feeling like they've earned a wage.

ShishKabob

Thu, Aug 22 2019, 12:38 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

What culture is that? I am proud to say that I am NOT part of that and I can't fathom that this culture exists here in the US.

chicco

Thu, Aug 22 2019, 12:47 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

What culture is that? I am proud to say that I am NOT part of that and I can't fathom that this culture exists here in the US.

I don't think amother was subscribing to that theory. I think she meant that there are certain jobs designed without a salary and dependent on tips, such as waiters and counselors. Many employed in these capacities do not receive regular salaries on the assumption that they will make it up on tips. It is a horrible system.

ShishKabob

Thu, Aug 22 2019, 12:49 pm

chicco wrote:

I agree.
I'll also lump in to this the camps where they make the counselors 'pay' to get a job there. so, that they have the honor and privilege of being a counselor in that camp.

I don't agree that they do this in order to make the waiters feel like they're getting charity though. That's a distorted view imo.

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Aug 22 2019, 1:00 pm

my nine year old is definitely grateful and I've seen my brothers kids be grateful as well. My 5 year old is on a good path but is younger. As I type this I can see the note that she wrote that I hung up on my wall saying
"Dear Mommy,
Thank you for being my mommy. Thank you for raising me beautifully"

I remember when she wrote it it was totally out of the blue.

I was so incredibly touched. so yes it definitely is possible.

#BestBubby

Thu, Aug 22 2019, 11:42 pm

1. Parents should thank each other. Dad should say "thanks Mom for delicious supper".
Mom should say "Thanks Dad for doing the shopping"

2. Parents should Thank Hashem out loud for health, food to eat, nice clothes, etc.

3. Parents should instill appreciation for teachers - and show children how they write thank you notes to teachers and give gifts of appreciation (chanuka). Parents should also instill appreciation for grandparents.

4. Children should be required to help out in the house.

5. Children should not get everything they ask for and understand budgeting.

6. Older children should be encouraged to earn their spending money (babysitting, tutoring).

7. Children should be encouraged to do chessed.

Laiya

Thu, Aug 22 2019, 11:50 pm

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

My father used to tell me not to thank him because he was doing things for me, he was just doing his job as a parent.

I agree with those who disagreed with this post but, maybe you're trying to express that a parent shouldn't need their dc's appreciation to fill their own emotional void. That I agree with. We train our children to express appreciation to us or anyone else because it's our job to teach them good middos, not because their appreciation boosts our own ego.

amother

Tan

Fri, Aug 23 2019, 8:20 am

I heard that there is a reason we must teach Kibbud Av Vem, but we don't have to teach ourselves to be grateful for our children. Our children do not naturally feel grateful and respectful toward us - maybe a bit, maybe some times, maybe some kids. But there's a reason we're instructed to teach them to be respectful (and grateful). It's because they naturally need the instruction. It helps me to understand that my kids are great kids - just still needing instruction (rather than ungrateful whinging hopeless cases - which just isn't true)

#BestBubby

Fri, Aug 23 2019, 8:33 am

From an online article on teaching children gratitude:

One day after eating breakfast, I pushed back from the table and said,
“Check, please.” My wife presented a bill to each person in the family. Then throughout the day, she or I would proclaim, “Check, please!” Folded laundry and other tasks came with a bill for services rendered.

At the end of the day, we tallied up the checks, and we told our children that we would gladly pay their bills. The day was a reminder of how blessed they are, and our children got it.

miami85

Fri, Aug 23 2019, 9:49 am

I ka"h have 4 children of very different personalities. So far even though the youngest isnt even 2 yet, 3 out of the 4 have very gracious natures (the youngest will hug me and say "I Love you"). They do things for me and others without thinking too much about it (my eldest only grumbles if it means I'm taking him away from his computer game). I have one in the middle who struggles in this regard, and I don't know why. He has a very "entitled" attitude and seems very ungrateful much of the time, in speech, in action and deed. I hope he will grow out of this attitude and realize how much we do for him all of the time, but I do understand his gripe as I too feel like we have gotten the short end of the stick much of the time. So I think it has a lot to do with in-born nature.

amother

Slategray

Fri, Aug 23 2019, 10:28 am

I am the OP of the original thread. Just want to chime in and mention that my daughter has always appreciated her life. I definitely tried to instill in her a sense of gratitude and taught her this from a very young age. Which is why her behavior now worries me. So kudos to all of the moms who try to do this as well. It seems teenagers really are another breed!