Will travel anywhere for a warm HEALTHY girls highschool

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Linen

Wed, Nov 20 2019, 2:58 pm

How does your daughter feel about this? That's a crucial, missing, piece of the puzzle.

You may not have to do anything as drastic as moving. What about a summer camp in the States? Israel has a lot of schools. You're likely to find something that fits. But make sure it's a fit for your daughter, and not just your idea of what's good.

Another question here is whether you fit into the community where you live. I'm sensing a mismatch. That rubs off on kids too.

amother

Amethyst

Wed, Nov 20 2019, 3:00 pm

amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:

Amethyst the school I'm talking about is in Livingston NJ- same school?

No, Teaneck. But know which school you're talking about!

Bitachon123

Wed, Nov 20 2019, 3:27 pm

saramalka wrote:

Peninei Chen in Ramat bet shemesh.
The girls love it and it won an award this past year

I second this! I don't have kids this age yet but every girl I've met from there I've been really impressed with, and the teachers seem really warm and genuine. I went to an event they put on and just sensed a really great vibe! Much hatzlocha!

amother

Wed, Nov 20 2019, 4:27 pm

Wow!
My heart was heavy about this last night, and I sent out this post and went straight to bed. I had a crazy day and only opened this up now, I'm SO SO touched that so many people took the time to weigh in on this. I feel like I got a million good leads and I'm going to seriously look into all these schools. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
To everyone discouraging us from moving - I completely agree with you!! It would be horrible if we had to leave Israel where we have built a life for ourselves and sacrificed so much to be here. I was saying it (and still mean it) in desperation! That's how important it is for me to find the right school, if healthy and warm simply doesn't exist here, then I would uproot and move to wherever it exists. I AGREE that it would be traumatic, but I'm trying to weigh up the traumas here. My daughter's principal just screamed at the girls and called them freaks ("freakim" in Hebrew) for wearing the hoods on their jackets on their heads. She said that's how 'street people' dress and that it doesn't matter if they're cold, beis Yaakov girls don't wear hoods. Then she went on to tell them that she heard that they were discussing their period during recess. My daughter said the principal wouldn't say the actual word. She told them that it's not tznius and it's never ever something to talk about. She was yelling at them and telling them that they are disgusting for taking about it.
This is not what I signed up for. Banging head

I'm just sharing today's story with you, but there are so many more.
As far as keeping her together with her friends- unfortunately, the girls scatter to all different high schools so she wont be with her group of friends anyway if we stay here. I hope we can find a good place here in Israel to send her. I got a lot of good leads from this thread. If all else fails I WOULD move though, if I thought it was best for her.

It's not "holy" to live in Israel while sacrificing your own kids and their spirituality.

Bitachon123

Wed, Nov 20 2019, 4:41 pm

Omg, that sounds really intense, I totally understand why you'd be worried! Doesnt sound healthy at all!

I'm wondering if it's a school that caters for a purely Israeli charedi student body?

What I've found is that the schools that cater for chutzniks as well as Israelis, and that have Hanhala that represent both are alot more grounded, even if still chareidi. There are alot of chutniks in RBS, hence Peninei Chen catering for that crowd.

amother

Tan

Wed, Nov 20 2019, 5:35 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It's obvious you want the best for your dd.
However, I really think you would be making a HUGE mistake to even consider moving countries in this situation.

I have nothing against moving in general, for good reasons. In your situation, however, I think it would be a colossal misstep.

Your dd has been here for most of her life (maybe all of it?) Taking her out of her environment comes with a million risks. You would be risking all this for an 'ideal' school. Ideal schools don't exist. You would be disappointed, and your dd would be lost.

Now, in your place, I would also be very unhappy with the school. But you do realize there are a million schools in Israel?

I have had a few children go through the school system in Israel. My girls went to regular ulpanit/ulpanot high schools, geared for the dati leumi crowd. I was very happy with these schools. Were they ideal? No, far from it (way too RW for me, for example). But they were warm, happy, schools. The examples you gave would never occur there (in fact, the teacher mentioned the topic of periods to all us mothers during one evening). The atmosphere was very Israeli and open, the girls discussed everything with one another. Including periods.

Maybe BY is the wrong place for your dd. You might want to consider the ulpana style schools. You might have a good one nearby that doesn't require dorming (my kids never dormed).

Just remember, though, that these schools will have their own issues. Every school does. (Although, like you, I would find your current school's approach to be a red line).

Window

Wed, Nov 20 2019, 6:24 pm

It sounds like you’d appreciate Chabad. They focus a lot more on a love of Yiddishkeit and good midos, as opposed to screaming at girls for tznius. As far as I know, the Chabad high school in Krayot is the best Chabad high school in Israel. I’ve never heard a bad word about it.

amother

Jetblack

Wed, Nov 20 2019, 9:58 pm

Beis Yaakov Los Angeles? (And we had a thunderstorm today so you know I am not just talking weather!)

When I went there it was pretty warm- nothing like you describe. More positive oriented than the stuff you describe while still being very frum. But you would have to ask more recent grads than myself how it is today.

I wish you the best luck in finding the right place for your daughter and your family. Make sure she is included so that in case things aren't as perfect as you assume it will be she knows the effort and thought that went into it and she knows you tried and you took her input into account. Maybe if you can narrow it down to places that may work for you and are good possibilities you can have her tour the school one day, sit in on classes etc? Let her give some input, but also let her know it isn't entirely up to her --- that is too heavy a load for an 8th grader! Plus there are other considerations like jobs etc.

By the way, how is her English? Will she feel self conscious, out of place etc in America?

bigmomma

Wed, Nov 20 2019, 10:08 pm

Bnos Chomesh Academy. Crown Heights.Modern Lubavitch.contact Dena Gorkin

amother

Thu, Nov 21 2019, 12:53 am

Bitachon123 wrote:

I'm wondering if it's a school that caters for a purely Israeli charedi student body?

What I've found is that the schools that cater for chutzniks as well as Israelis, and that have Hanhala that represent both are alot more grounded, even if still chareidi. There are alot of chutniks in RBS, hence Peninei Chen catering for that crowd.

This school is actually known as the "American Beis Yaakov."
That's why we chose it. It has a lot of girls from American families and was considered to be more relaxed. They got a new principal a few years ago and she is all fire and brimstone. Her main goal is to shape up these 'wayward' girls who would dare to wear a black sweater instead of navy, or knee socks instead of tights, or wear shoes that are bootie length. Apparently that's too 'modern' a style. Turns out talking about getting your period is too modern a topic!! Can't Believe It

If this was balanced by warm teachers who are teaching with love and passion, I would let it go. But it's not. It's just the intensity without any of the good stuff. I can see why kids in this type of environment go off the derech.

amother

Thu, Nov 21 2019, 1:01 am

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

By the way, how is her English? Will she feel self conscious, out of place etc in America?

Bh her English is excellent. Reading English even above her grade level. She was born here in Israel, but she actually still says that she feels she can express herself better in English. English is still her mother tongue and the language spoken at home. All her close friends are children of Americans, so basically all playdates and extra curriculars are in English.

amother

Thu, Nov 21 2019, 1:30 am

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

She just says that she wishes her whole class would go to the same highschool. Her main opinion about highschool is that she's going to whichever one most of her friends go to so she won't be alone. I understand where she's coming from, that's very much how a 12 year old thinks. I feel that it's my job to guide her. I know that she would do better in a warmer school, but she doesn't know that. This is all she knows. I know that there is more out there. That Judaism doesn't have to be this dry. She can't know to want what she's never had. Sometimes being a good parent is making your child be the "new girl" and have a rough transition, followed by four years of thriving, rather than a smoother transition to highschool followed my four more years of rote memorization of halacha, and a culture that breeds conformity and inhibition.

We fit into our community pretty well. We have a shul and plenty of friends. Our community is not perfect, but I also have the maturity to understand that no community is perfect. Our daughter is definitely not thriving in this school or in general in this environment. I would sacrifice a lot to see our daughter thriving.

amother

Linen

Thu, Nov 21 2019, 1:38 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

She just says that she wishes her whole class would go to the same highschool. Her main opinion about highschool is that she's going to whichever one most of her friends go to so she won't be alone. I understand where she's coming from, that's very much how a 12 year old thinks. I feel that it's my job to guide her. I know that she would do better in a warmer school, but she doesn't know that. This is all she knows. I know that there is more out there. That Judaism doesn't have to be this dry. She can't know to want what she's never had. Sometimes being a good parent is making your child be the "new girl" and have a rough transition, followed by four years of thriving, rather than a smoother transition to highschool followed my four more years of route memorization of halacha, and a culture that breeds conformity and inhibition.

We fit into our community pretty well. We have a shul and plenty of friends. Our community is not perfect, but I also have the maturity to understand that no community is perfect. Our daughter is definitely not thriving in this school or in general in this environment. I would sacrifice a lot to see our daughter thriving.

Would you move to a more open community in Israel? As you say, no community is perfect. Check out various Torani neighborhoods and schools.

You say that you know that there is more out there. How? What kind of community did you grow up in? Why did you leave?

amother

Tan

Thu, Nov 21 2019, 3:27 am

I understand your frustration. You chose the wrong type of school the first time around, and you want to fix your mistake.

Thing is, at this age, it's not so easy to just move around a kid like a chess piece. If she wanted a different school, then yes it would work. But if you are forcing the move upon her, it has a high chance of backfiring.

Most girls in Israel continue on to the high school where their friends go. That's the way it's done. Of course she can thrive as a newbie in a new school - if that's what she wants, not if it's forced on her.

I suggest looking at the two or three schools where her friends are going and choosing the best of those. You are anyways leaving the fire and brimstone school, right? So hopefully the next will be better.

amother

Tan

Thu, Nov 21 2019, 3:39 am

You can also try to convince her to switch. But not by force.

Under no circumstances would I move city, let alone country, for the 'ideal' school. Not at this age (if she were 6 I'd say go for it).

Also you can work harder on modelling what you want at home. Expose her wherever you can to the kind of hashkafa you admire.
I agree it's a tough spot.

amother

Cyan

Thu, Nov 21 2019, 4:33 am

saramalka wrote:

Peninei Chen in Ramat bet shemesh.
The girls love it and it won an award this past year

Another suggestion.
I also agree that it's more than teachers and the school. You should be teaching your daughter yiddishkeit - NOT her school. BY's were created to keep girls from learning science and math in non-jewish schools - not to teach hashkafa.

Israeli BY's have pathetic hashkafa I admit, but if she has good friends, close to her parents, and there's some good teachers there and treat her fairly the hashkafa can be dealt with.

I'm a Ko Tomar graduate. From RBS too. Ko Tomar used to be very warm and altho it was israeli BY with a heavy emphasis on tzniyus the teachers were warm and were open to questions and discussions. Although his has no changed unfortunately and the school is not very anti americans and questions.

Pninei Chein and Bnot Harama in RBS are really good. All the former Ko Tomar teachers work there now.

LovesHashem

Thu, Nov 21 2019, 4:37 am

As someone who moved to Israel around that age I HIGHLY discourage moving countries.
It's incredibly traumatic.

I suggest the schools in RBS people have suggested in addition to Kook in Jerusalem. I know graduates from there from a couple of years ago and it sounded like a very diverse place hat was warm and all. Although every few years the schools here are completely different so do your own research!

amother

Slateblue

Thu, Nov 21 2019, 5:06 am

Another rec for Pninei Chen. I know the principal personally, she is a warm and dedicated person who is very beloved in the school. Her family is very chareidi, but the school is meant for girls from all BY backgrounds and is open and encouraging. They do not have a blue shirt because they do bagruyot and are therefore not a BY.
Girls really blossom there and there is academic excellence, but not pressure.
It's worthwhile to check it out! But if your daughter is only 12, you have time!

amother

Thu, Nov 21 2019, 7:18 am

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

Yes! I would! The main reason we chose beis Yaakov over Torani for elementary school was media exposure. Generally the Torani kids have more access to TV and movies than we're comfortable with. But if we can find a Torani school with families that share our values I would definitely be open to that. If you have any suggestions please share!

To answer your second question, I grew up modern orthodox. In our schools all the Jewish studies teachers were more yeshivish, they sent their own daughters to BY, not to our schools. The teachers we had were amazing. They were on fire for Torah, their whole lives were about avodas hashem. They truly loved us and shared their passion with us. I learned to love tefilah, from learning the art of prayer and all the deeper meanings. Also just watching the way our teachers would daven was tremendously inspiring. We had amazing shabbatons and kumzitz's. They brought in live music and we would simcha dance for hours. We did art projects that illustrated the Torah concepts we were learning, we learned to really love Judaism and wanted to saturate our lives with it.
I, like many of my friends, chose to live a life more similar to that of our teachers than to our parents.
So, that's my background in a nutshell. Smile

amother

Thu, Nov 21 2019, 7:30 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

It's not like that in her school. The girls really scatter to lots of different schools. When I've asked the women in the neighborhood with older daughters to give me the landscape of the options for high schools, every one of them said "there's really no great option."
One is more academic, one is less, one has girls from "better" homes, one has more of a mix. One is more modern, one is more charedi. When I asked which one is warm, the answer unanimously was "none". This is just not acceptable to me. She's starting a new school regardless, so it might as well be a warm, happy one.

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