S/O of S/O of babies

amother

Wheat

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 12:19 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

ETA- even then, it's extremely hard to be present emotionally for all the kids. You will be busy diapering and nursing when your teens need you to take them shopping and have long chats with them.

I have some of my best long chats when I'm nursing. Diapering rarely takes longer than a minute or two.

Taking someone shopping is an outing, so you diaper and feed baby before. (Maybe leave baby with DH if he's home, or babysitter.) Not sure why this would be such a major hardship.

amother

White

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 12:21 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

No, not at all. I agree that EVERY child won't have their parents' attention ALL the time, that would raise brats. But as long as EVERY child gets at least SOME wholesome time, they will grow up well rounded with a healthy balance of being self sufficient and being able to rely on parents.

So I think it's very hard to ensure that EVERY child gets some quality time every week when you have over ten.
Most women aren't superwomen.
Again, if you are not working, and have lots of household help, and have easy children, then of course you will be able to find time. But most women of ten children aren't in that position.

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 12:24 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

ETA- even then, it's extremely hard to be present emotionally for all the kids. You will be busy diapering and nursing when your teens need you to take them shopping and have long chats with them.

Does taking them shopping mean being present emotionally????

My way of being there emotionally is by staying home and doing projects and just plain listening.

amother

White

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 12:26 am

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

I didn't mean literally nursing. It was an example.
But first of all, not all women like to nurse in front of teen sons.

Second, many women are just not mentally available - they are too preoccupied with the next nursing/the baby's very immediate needs to realize what the other 13 kids need. Taking care of a baby is very emotionally consuming; it's hard to remember that it's the ten year old's birthday in three days, or that the 19 year old needs another appointment, or that the twelve year old missed the orthodontist appointment, or that the 13 year old hasn't invited any friends for three months, or that you haven't called your seminary dd in three days and she's the type who likes to talk with you daily.

amother

White

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 12:28 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

Does taking them shopping mean being present emotionally????

My way of being there emotionally is by staying home and doing projects and just plain listening.

Shopping can be quality alone time. And yes, for teen girls it also has an emotional component - helping them figure out what looks good on them, helping them feel good about themselves.

Many kids don't like doing projects, and many kids want to talk with you without 3 other siblings in the room listening.

I dont mean to sound negative- it's great if it works for you. I still dont think most mothers have what it takes to be emotionally present for 14 kids today.

amother

Rose

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 12:51 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

First of all, six is a pretty large family.

Second, abuse can exist anywhere, also in families of one or two children. However, the more children, the more overwhelmed a parent can feel, and the abuse can exacerbate.

But of course true abuse exists everywhere, unfortunately. We are talking more about benign neglect, rather than abuse.

I came from a family of less than 6.

I experienced TRUE NEGLECT both emotionally and physically- worst than any of the "horror" stories on this thread if missing pencils and outdated clothing.

My biggest dream growing up was to be part of a larger family

amother

Wheat

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 1:40 am

Many of the posts here just underscore how important it is to ensure we are meeting our children's needs.

Some need shopping, some private DMCs, some need their lunch personally packed by Mommy, others just need regular hugs and reassurance. All need someone to notice and to care.

A mother of a large family may have more EXCUSES if she is failing to meet some of these needs, but excuses don't raise children. A mother of a small family may have fewer excuses, but they are still excuses.

Whatever size family you have or are from, you ARE (in most cases) capable of meeting your children's needs, if they are important to you.

If you're having trouble, ask for advice. If you're overwhelmed, cut down on some things, delegate, or lower your standards. They are your children.

amother

Red

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 7:54 am

I know a few men who begged their wives to get on bc but they refused possibly because of pressure or selfishness. Yes these women are selfish. The husband feels neglected, and realises the children are not being looked after properly but his wife keeps on having kids.

Yes they are committing a crime.

Just because it is common in our frum world to have larger families doesnt mean its for everyone. My kalla teacher, a respected woman who teaches all over actually told me she really sat down to THINK before each child and assess if shell handle it. Dont have a baby just because.

It always fascinates me when I read these non fiction books and the woman is relaying all the hardships her family went through and how their was chaos and neglect because of a situation and then lo and behold she finds out shes pregnant! what she gonna do too overwhelming to think.... Next time do your hishtadlus and get onto bc.

SuperWify

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 8:15 am

So funny because growing up I was embarrassed to put in the world with my whole family because we’d get comments and looks due to our large family size.

I can only remember one incident where a non-Jew made a positive remark about our family size.

amother

Taupe

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 8:22 am

amother [ Red ] wrote:

I find this very judgmental. You can say this about your own life not about others.

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 8:33 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

Calendars, anyone? We keep 2 months of calendar planning sheets at a time on our fridge where everyone posts their upcoming events or appointments. Who ever expected a mother to mentally keep tabs of every family happening?

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 8:39 am

amother [ Taupe ] wrote:

And how can a mother ever forget her child's birthday???

Cultural, I guess? My parents or in laws never celebrated birthdays. You woke up in the morning and were the next age....We are also not so into birthdays.

amother

Mint

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 9:14 am

remembering your child's birthday has nothing to do with the love you feel for your child. My mother's not good about remembering our birthday. Birthdays were never a big thing. I have never doubted that my mother loves me.
My husband puts the dates in his calender so he'll remember to wish our kids happy birthday but he personally doesn't care at all about birthdays either. He doesn't want to celebrate his own.

amother

Red

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 9:18 am

amother [ Taupe ] wrote:

I find this very judgmental. You can say this about your own life not about others.

I had a chat with one such woman and she admitted to me that at the time she did the wrong thing, she doesnt know why she kept on having more kids when everyone incl the rav advised her to stop. Actually she mentioned something about not being bothered for bc...

amother

White

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 10:21 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

I didn't mean literally remember. Or at least not just remember. I meant that there is so much to do. Birthdays, chauffeuring to friends, homework, appointments, doctors, dentists, tutors, shopping. You can pencil all this in the calendar as much as you want, but you also need to DO it.

I don't believe a mother can do this for 14 children properly, UNLESS she is a SAHM with full time help, and her dh is around every evening to help chauffeur and sit with kids who need homework help etc. AND her kids are not especially demanding. AND she has boundless energy, to sit with a depressed teen and chat at 11 pm rather than curl up and collapse, or to drive her 12 yr old all over town to look for a purim costume before she has a breakdown - just energy for all the extra things life demands.

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 11:36 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

I don't believe a mother can do this for 14 children properly

Just because you don't believe a mother can do this, doesn't mean they actually can't. And I don't believe we have to post our head off to prove it either. You are not willing to raise my kids under my circumstances and I am certainly not willing to take upon yours.

So what exactly is the point of all these threads?

octopus

Thu, Jan 30 2020, 11:54 am

17/18 year olds can take care of their own appointments not 12/13 year olds. That's just a recipe for disaster. Ex. Child not understanding instructions or directives etc. And relaying wrong info to parent. My dentist will not do work on a minor whose parents are not present. I once had trouble finding parking and so I sent my kids in so I wouldn't be late. The dentist would not even put my bigger kid into a room until I came in. Allergist? They will not give minors a shot unless the parent's in the office. Not outside. Inside. And my biggest kid is well into the double digits. Speech therapy? Do you want to know whats going on? You need to be present!! I think large families are nice. I also think children should be as independent as possible. But having kids do their own appointments is not feasible and is not the solution.