Is it ok to lock a child in a room

amother

Violet

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 10:23 am

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

Following, my four year old also will start hitting biting and beating the other kids, plus parents for tiny things.
I couldn't put him in a room himself, he would freak.
I sometimes hold him tight till he calms down but it's hard and he's really strong.
I sometimes tell the other kids to ignore him because that sometimes works but it's not fair, why should they get hurt and just ignore.
BTW he is slowly understanding cause and effect but not consistently enough to use it as a parenting tool yet.
Any ideas, I try to preempt, distract, hold him, make him sit on the couch with a book. Nothing seems to work.
Funnily enough, although she always destroys his toys, he never hurts the baby(14 months).
He's a sweetheart, just when he gets mad, he gets mad!

Four year olds are full people. They deserve some respect. Talk to him like he’s an adult. Validate. Explain what you’re doing and why. And establish authority.
“Honey, I am bringing you away from the other kids.”
“I will not allow kicking/biting.”
“You look and sound really frustrated.”
“You can cry as much as you need to, and that’s ok, but I will not let the screaming/potching/kicking/biting.”
“Right now, I have to walk you away from the other kids so we don’t hurt them.”
“That’s not how we play, so I have to separate you from them.”
“You look really mad. Would you like to tell me what’s wrong so I can help you fix the problem?”

Use some (or all) of these.

Locking a kid in a room is invalidating and scary. Telling a kid to stop crying is invalidating. Telling a kid “don’t kick!” is a challenge for them to keep kicking.

amother

Ruby

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 10:55 am

Amother violet, thanks for the suggestions, I appreciate the time you took to write so many examples.
However,
1. When my son is tantruming/out of control you can not talk to him. It's not fair to expect him to hear and be logical when he is in 'fight' mode.
2. I originally tried all those things, they didn't work.
3. I believe even adults sometimes need to calm down and figure out methods of how to react when upset. I have spoken to my kids about this, my 8 year old wants to sit on my lap, my 10 yr old wants to read (I do that too to calm down), my six yr old lies down in bed and after two minutes, he reregulates.
My four year old, however, loses it. Even when I speak to him after, he's still in victim mode "but they took my car". So for now I need to help him reregulate himself. I'm looking for ideas how.
Lawngreen, I once patched. It was a disaster cuz from then on he always said 'but you hit me' whenever I discussed hitting with him

amother

Amethyst

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 10:59 am

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

If more parents would parent today you'd never need to lock a child in a room. My kids don't trantrum. They know they will be asked to go to another room and calm down or will be spanked. Amazing how somehow using a belt or a wooden spoon a few times is worse than allowing your kid to grow up a monster.

Sorry but we’ve evolved from that. Clear, calm punishments and consequences but never a smack. That’s a parent asserting dominance over a child who’s too small to defend himself and is the same as locking the child in his room. It’s great that you have compliant children. Likely they comply out of fear and not for the sake of it. Good luck to them.

Bleemee

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 11:33 am

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

I expected to see a lot of answers saying "no way" "will cause anxiety" "will cause attachment issues" however op, I have a child like your who desperately needs time to be away from the scene thats causing her to throw these severe tantrums. I tried putting her on the steps and talking to her but shell kick and scream and hurt me. After becoming desperate enough I called a chinuch expert who told me to put my DD in her room and hold the knob (dont lock it) and talk to her thru the door to let her know im there. This has helped us tremendously!
I will add that this specific child has little to no anxiety bh! Sometimes her and her sister will make trouble together and ill punish her 1st and she will smile all the way thru the punishment while her sister will sit on the side sobbing. So u agree you have to know who you are dealing with..

I am not an expert, but I think if she’s smiling through the punishment that’s a red flag. And I don’t think anxiety always presents itself the way you think it might look.
It sounds difficult, hatzlacha!

Bleemee

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 11:35 am

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

Why is it either or? Seems like an easy way out to me. Maybe they’re a third, nuanced choice.
And how do you know the child who was spanked doesn’t become a quiet monster or have another set of issues?

amother

Royalblue

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 11:44 am

Bleemee wrote:

This is one of the things I mentioned when I was speaking to someone about her issues. How she loves mischief and there arent really punishments shes afraid of which make it hard to discipline her. I was told to do it anyway with a serious face and shell get the hint even if her face doesnt show it. I was told teach by example, she the kids alot of love and also structure and shell be fine in the long run. Sometime little kids are just trouble makers doesnt always mean they will grow up to be serial killers csv! My mom says I was similar to her. I still probably am considered a bit brazen but bh im a well rounded adult w.o anxiety bh! I did marry an anxious guy thou which is probably where my older dd gets it from.. they are other maalos thou:)

amother

Violet

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 11:53 am

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

1. You don’t have to expect him to listen to you or be logical during a tantrum. But you can take him hand and guide him away from the kids and narrate what you’re doing. Keep repeating yourself. And keep it short and simple. “I have to move you away from the other kids for a few minutes”. “We are standing over here away from the kids.”
2. No answer here Smile

sorry, that’s frustrating though
3. “If you feel like you need to potch/kick, here’s this soft pillow you can potch/kick”.
(Does he like animals? Maybe show him how to stretch like a giraffe, stomp like an elephant, walk silly like a crab, hop like a bunny?)
“Can we take a deep breath and then tell me what happened? I’m listening, but my ears only hear big boy voices.”
“Oh man he DID take your car! That’s not very nice! And I’m sure that made you so sad. That would make me sad, too. Can we think of a different way to get our car back? I don’t think he’s gonna give it back after being potched/kicked/bitten.”
“Oh you asked him nicely first? That was nice and gentle of you. Maybe next time, we can ask mommy or totty? Doesn’t that sound better that hurting?”

amother

Blue

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 12:01 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

This is what my parenting mentor advised as well - holding the door and letting the child know you are right there with them.

I also just want to point out what may be obvious to some but...a child smiling thru a punishment does not mean the punishment does not hurt that child. On the contrary - it may be an indication of even greater sensitivity to punishment.

As someone who has been thru severe parental abuse, I will say I was the child sobbing away, and I'm a pretty healthy adult (with struggles, but I lead a pretty normal life B"H).

My sister, who showed no hurt reaction, was punished even more severely, and is a very traumatized adult, repeating in certain ways the abuse she suffered.

amother

Apricot

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 12:02 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

How is saying you will not allow kicking, different than saying Don't kick?

silverlining3

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 12:10 pm

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

It's their ego that doesn't allow them to cry. But shall they get a tiny knock after you yelled, put them in time out, in a room, or whatever, they'll burst into tears.
Maybe it's not every child, but I've seen it with 2 child who laughs through punishments or answers back.

amother

Blue

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 12:47 pm

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

If you have done the bolded, I just want to call that what it is: ABUSE.

I will write here, as witness, that a child who is hit by a belt grows up to be a monster.

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 2:25 pm

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

If you have done the bolded, I just want to call that what it is: ABUSE.

I will write here, as witness, that a child who is hit by a belt grows up to be a monster.

Did you really just compare spanking to beating a child with a wooden spoon or belt?

There is no comparison.

(Not getting into the spanking debate here. Just saying that there is no comparison between a spank and beating a child with a spoon or belt. None.)

(Also. My father never used a belt on us. But his father used a belt on him. He is far, far, far, from being a monster.)

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 2:30 pm

trixx wrote:

Nope, still not developmentally capable of self regulation until after 5. And if until then you have never taught regulation, he will never learn it on his own, because the neurons capable of that have been switched off due to lack of use. Ie before 5 model it and after 5 they can practice on their own.
No Drama Discipline if you're interested in the science.

Where on your scale does the 5-year-old fit?

I said not for 4yos, yes for 5+yos. You say "until after 5" but then you say "before 5 model it and after 5 they can practice on their own."

The 5y1d, or 5y2m, where do they fit on your scale?

Also while I'm not arguing your point about self-regulation it is silly to think that the only way to teach self-regulation is by trying to teach it when your child is having a temper tantrum. You can't teach anything during a tantrum, you have to teach when the child is calm and work on making it a habit so that they can transfer the skills to situations like temper tantrums and fights at school.

giselle

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 2:42 pm

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

My kids don’t tantrum either. And I’ve never spanked them. There are other ways. And a belt? I hope you’re joking.

amother

Yellow

Wed, Jul 22 2020, 2:45 pm

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

Maybe not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they turn up on here in a decade to discuss the trauma they developed from having a physically abusive parent.