My daughter is the only one not going to seminary

watergirl

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 8:04 am

My step daughter was the only one in her class who did not go a few years ago. I posted about it here at the time as amother and all sorts of mean things were said to me. I paid the $200 application fees myself (sold 2 sheitels to do so). She got in to one , but when it was time to discuss finances with her mother, my husband's ex, the mother refused to talk to my husband about money. She kept saying she has nothing to do with it and it is all on us to pay... my step daughter, in the mean time, had her head filled with nonsense from her mother regarding the massive waste of time it is to apply for a single grant, scholarship, etc. and she also refused to put a cent of her own into spending money... we took all of that to show that she was not interested in going. There were a lot of opportunities for her to get monies from various sources including FAFSA, MASA, $500 towards airfare, etc. but she refused to even consider it... and people here said how horrible I was for even letting her apply. We had no idea it would have turned out the way it did and all these years later (about 4), she is still mad that we would not put up the 35k for her to go... she thinks we have the money but we were hiding it... I wish I knew where it was!

I tell you this because I want you to know that there are many girls who do not get to go. My daughter is approaching that time quickly and her school and friends in my community who have been there tell me there are so many opportunities for financial assistance if you just know where to look. Her school helps with all of that...

OP, did you look into FAFSA? MASA? Your local Federation has small grants. From what I've heard there are many places to look.

In any case, OP, please look and ask and talk to people. Do not say no just yet.

amother [ Red ] wrote:

Op, we’re you planning on sending her to college? It’s the same price as a year in college. And you can get the credits too.

Amother red, I'm not sure how you can say this. Seminary is at LEAST 25k for a year.

I just googled the top state university in my state and a full year is $10,779, and thats BEFORE any financial assistance, which the vast majority of students receive. Community colleges for the first two years are a very popular option and the median tuition is $3,500 for a full year and again, thats before financial assistance.

amother

Red

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 8:18 am

watergirl wrote:

I’m paying under 20 for a top tier seminary. They gave us an in house scholarship of 10,000$ off. Then we’ll work on all the other scholarships.
Most seminaries will give tuition off. Some even down to 10,000 as the full tuition

amother

Jade

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 8:19 am

WhatFor wrote:

I think this is a different discussion so if we continue down this path, maybe start a spinoff. But I'll maintain that encouraging credit card debt for seminary for a teenager is a terrible idea. I'm not sure how HS tuition comes into play here.

Student loans are a difficult enough burden as it is, but at least it can go toward an actual career and the government ones are set up in a way to allow for long term payment plans with lower interest rates. OP said nothing about dd getting college credits through sem so I assume it's n/a here.

Credit card debts are a different shark altogether. OP should not be teaching DD to buy something she can't afford on a credit card, so that at eighteen before she has even started college, a family, or has any career prospects, she's already thousands of dollars in the hole with compounding interest. This is an age where DD should be encouraged to be saving and investing in her future.

Not to mention you don't pay the way for one child's good time while making your other child go into debt over it. But that's really the larger issue OP is looking at right now.

Not advocating credit card debt as a general matter but will note that credit card debt is at least dischargeable in bankruptcy...

watergirl

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 8:48 am

amother [ Red ] wrote:

Ok, so my stepdaughter's seminary (the one she got into) was $23,000 and she said she needed $1,000/month from us for spending money, etc. so I came up with an estimated figure. Lets say her seminary had been willing to work with us (no idea because we never got to that point), we could not have been able to afford the 10k on our own either. In any case, in her situation, the decision was made not to send her because of her attitude about the money and scholarships, etc.

But yes, I am very aware that many give a scholarship. OP, please look into it.

amother

Green

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 9:06 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Not advocating credit card debt as a general matter but will note that credit card debt is at least dischargeable in bankruptcy...

Terrible idea for a 19 or 20 year to be starting off their adult life by either massive cc debt or declaring bankruptcy. This is the time in their life where they will need to getting loans for the first time for college tuition, car loans, not to mention hopefully looking ahead to marriage and a family in the not too distant future.
This is the sort of advice that will cripple them before they even get started.

amother

Denim

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 9:25 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Not advocating credit card debt as a general matter but will note that credit card debt is at least dischargeable in bankruptcy...

PLEASE don't advise a young innocent girl to go the bankruptcy route.

Bankruptcy will cripple her through her 20s. Think about Car leases or loans, mortgages, the tier of credit cards and reward programs she can apply to, etc. It takes a long time to get that off your record.

And what about the morality and stealing aspect. If you knowingly place things on your credit card on the account of declaring bankruptcy to get out of paying it, that is stealing. This shouldn't even be a thought process in the minds of an ehrliche person.

amother

Khaki

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 9:31 am

watergirl wrote:

I think you made the right decision, considering her attitude, although I'm sure it was very painful.

My dd is in seminary in Israel now and she spent about $1000 so far since the beginning of September. She's spending her own money that she worked hard for, so she understands what it's worth.

OP, we got close to $10,000 from FAFSA this year. But MASA gave very little.

amother

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 9:44 am

Thank you for your replies.

We are applying for all the scholarships we could. The sem asked us how much we could afford but I couldnt come up with an answer. I hate those questions because I cant afford what they really want.

I will ask them if I could pay it out whatever price we come up with but it is a popular sem and they have a long waiting list so not sure if they will work with us. The other sem she applied to didnt get back to us with an answer yet plus no one from her school or any school near me is going to this sem that we are aware of and I am nervous sending her alone. She was never on a plane or in EY so I would like her to go with someone.

As far as why we applied, it was not me who did it. My daughter took upon herself to apply knowing we cant afford it but was hoping for a miracle. She worked and has about 2000 dollars and I hope to get the stimulus for her but not sure about that.
But I have so many other expenses that even if the tuition is taken care of its still a whole lot of money.

I just feel so sorry for her because she has a group of friends who are going and I know they will drift apart because of this. I see it happening already.
Her friends all started a group chat about sem and she is all left out. She has absolutely not one friend who is not going to sem and no one to talk to.

amother

Smokey

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 9:47 am

I have a niece who is in a difficult family situation, and she desperately wanted to go to seminary in Israel. Her school guided her to apply to a newer seminary that is known to give scholarships, and we were able to negotiate the cost down to 10K of tuition, which we raised from various people in the family who willingly gave Maaser money. This was last year BTW (so she's back home this year, out of seminary).

Niece also worked summers to save up for spending money, but at the last minute her parents emptied her bank account. We ended up raising extra for her spending money, which she was very frugal with anyway.

She could have gotten Masa last year had we been able to get her parents' tax statements (their income is very low) but they are so dysfunctional that they had not filed for 3 years. I told them we would only pay if by the end of the year they had caught up on their taxes. They finally did (the thought of the stimulus checks for sure helped) and this year she was able to qualify for a nice amount from FAFSA for her college tuition.

So there definitely are funding sources to tap into if you can...communicate with her school, ask them if there are cheaper seminaries she can get into.

Fox

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 10:47 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

This additional information changes the situation somewhat. Given that you allowed all this to happen without much discussion, I'll stand by my advice to do what you can to make this happen, but I'll add a few thoughts:

* "She won't have any friends at home" is possibly the dumbest reason for going to seminary. I'm not picking on you, OP -- I've heard this over and over. Guess what? People make new friends. In fact, my daughters made friends with young women a few years older, and the effects were amazing. They gained mentors and role models that zoomed them eons ahead of their cohort in maturity and responsibility. Oh, and their shidduchim were made by those slightly older new friends!

* Speak with your DD's high school principal and get her involved in finding financial resources and/or speaking to the seminary. It is outrageous that she participated in helping your daughter apply without your express permission.

* No one is a fan of credit card debt to finance this, but it might be a useful tool to help your daughter think through whether this is really important to her or whether she's just reacting to peer pressure. Break down the numbers for her -- show her that she'll need to get a full-time job right off the return flight home. She won't be able to afford a car or much in the way of clothes or travel if she's paying down debt. No meeting friends at any place fancier than a pizza shop. No money left over to save for her wedding or new home. Facing those realities may help everyone determine just how much to sacrifice for a year at sem.

Chayalle

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 11:11 am

Fox wrote:

My DD's both stayed in the US for seminary - their own choices. But I remember my oldest also saying she's gonna have no friends (by the time next DD went, it became a much more popular option and she went with friends. In fact, they were so flooded with applicants, that she was relieved to have had an older sister who attended, knowing her acceptance was not in question).

Well, she went to the local seminary and met other girls like herself, from other schools/neighborhoods/towns that she had never met before (where were they hiding all those years?) and branched out and made lasting friendships. She ended up having an amazing year B"H.

I remember how sensible I found your posts, Fox, when my oldest was in the seminary Parsha. I still find myself nodding along and appreciating your wise words. Thank you again.

SixOfWands

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 11:18 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If they asked what you can pay, you need to come up with a number. DS1's yeshiva asked us the same question, and was happy to work with us. Once they accept her, they have a vested interest in her.

DD2 didn't go to seminary, but I'm certain that when her friends return, they will all happily reunite. One of DS1's closest friends didn't go to yeshiva, and they're still very close. He and his college roommate attended different yeshivas, but (obviously) remained very close as well.

BTW, I'm thrilled that DS1 attended a different yeshiva than most of his friends. He was still able to meet up with them, but it gave him a whole different perspective and group of friends. A surprising number of these teens know each other anyway, from camps and through other friends.