Work & no eligibility for govt programs? Or no work & get it

amother

Oak

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 2:06 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I hear but I still don't get it. It's not a non-profit or money people are voluntarily donating

It’s not considered charity. I don’t think living off programs is ideal but on the other hand, many countries have these programs for everyone regardless of income. Israel for example has free healthcare and a childcare allowance for everyone. If programs are best for your family at this stage then I wouldn’t worry.

watergirl

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 2:07 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

Its not free in Israel. Taxes are very high and thats how its paid for. Nothing is free.

amother

Purple

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 2:13 pm

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

For everyone out there that's making just over 150k and concerned about your income disqualifying you from the tax credit and possible future benefits... You can contribute to your 401k tax and lower your official income. This helps for the tuition committee too.

This may not work going forward as there (hopefully) will not need to be another stimulus payment.

As for the child tax credits - they phase out slowly so you will not lose anything by making over $150k.

amother

Purple

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 2:14 pm

watergirl wrote:

Its not free in Israel. Taxes are very high and thats how its paid for. Nothing is free.

Its paid for by taxes here too. Plus our taxes are going to an enormous amount of waste as well.

amother

Crimson

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 2:18 pm

I lowered my current salary so as to be eligible for certain programs. It does not make sense for me to be making 5k more and then lose out on 15k in benefits.
For me though this is a short term arrangement - without going into unnecessary detail, the salary cut will not have to be for very long.
For many people this does make sense. Everyone will tell you that you should never cut your salary, but for many of us it is very worthwhile. Not everyone is eventually gonna grow and become a millionaire and retire in style if they just get through the "crunch" years. Some of us have no real growth options in our current field and making a few more dollars a year is unhelpful.

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 2:20 pm

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

I agree on lowering salalry if it means youll lose more than you'll earn long term.
A large part of the puzzle depends on whether we're looking at the main breadwinner or not.

watergirl

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 2:21 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I have no idea how people marry off on programs - if someone does know - fill me in

One of these:

- They make very modest (and beautiful) weddings and serve a small meal to a minyan and very few other guests and kiddish food to everyone else for a simchas chasson v'kallah (I did this at my wedding) at a creative venue, not a hall. The couple is not "set up" by the parents.

or
- earn money off the books and use that to pay for a wedding.

or

- depend on the kindness of a chessed org.

or a combination of those, or something that has not occurred to me.

amother

Wheat

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 2:21 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I appreciate that
So basically someone who isn't on programs can think
about the longer term vs someone reliant on the government
Need to chew on this and look up Mesila
any other insights appreciated

Not true at all earning 100k-150k before taxes a year will get you into debt you will have no money to put away so your good credit and income doesn't equal savings.

Just One

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 2:25 pm

Haven't read through the responses, replying to OP:
When you work you have the ability to grow and advance in your field. You can save and make investments.
In the short term, when you're young and starting out, it's definitely easier to rely on benefits, but benefits are a trap. The larger your family grows the harder it is to start out without them. In the meantime you're left with a dead end job, without the ability to save or invest for the future.

At 25 those on benefits are better off. At 40+ those that have worked themselves up are doing much better

And this is purely pragmatic. I won't even discuss the emotional impact of earning your keep

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 2:25 pm

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

Not true at all earning 100k-150k before taxes a year will get you into debt you will have no money to put away so your good credit and income doesn't equal savings.

Let's not get stuck on numbers. What works for one family/community/household is not what works for another.
I know people who are very happy with that income size.

amother

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 3:14 pm

Just One I appreciate your input
do you mind elaborate to help a financially uneducated woman
I'm really interested in learning more
or maybe you can point me in a direction/resource where I can read up?

amother

Crimson

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 3:27 pm

Just One wrote:

Just keep in mind that not everyone has a better job or an option for a bigger income. Not everyone grows and advances in their field.

amother

Smokey

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 3:27 pm

Even if you earn little at your job, some jobs come with benefits and much better health insurance than medicaid.

A low paying job can be a stepping stone towards a better paying one, plus you can get raises, so even if right at this moment you can only get a low paying job, it's still better than depending on programs.

Just One

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 3:29 pm

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

Just keep in mind that not everyone has a better job or an option for a bigger income. Not everyone grows and advances in their field.

Most people can if they make the choice to. Sometimes it's best to work with a career counselor to figure out your options

amother

Wheat

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 3:38 pm

Just One wrote:

In a way; but for us what worked was being lower middle income working hard, no benefits in the 20s while working on our degrees . When the kids are older and you have more kids you cannot get away with living without disposable income so you either need to capitalize on the investment you made in your career in your 20s and make a nice amount or be low income and you get money per kid so it adds up nicely. And about earning your keep it feels horrible working your tush off, not being there for your kids, and still not covering the month.

amother

Ivory

Mon, Mar 15 2021, 3:56 pm

Op, since you quoted me ill respond as well.

The bonus statement you quoted wasnt mine, but unfortunately I am in the same situation. After taxes I hope the bonus will cover the grocery bill for Pesach.

Dh has made the decision early on to worry about our future. My parents were on government programs. Now that they are retired they have nothing. Bh they had a house that sold well, they are living off of that and renting.

We have a 401k. Its turned out to be a great way to lower our tax rate. Anyone that pays taxes should do this. Unfortunately only one of our employers offer a 401k. We have savings just because of this.

We would need to almost double our income to live without struggling. I dont see it happening.

I also know people that cheat the system. They are on unemployment and working, getting paid in cash while on government programs. Im not referring to these people. Its between them and god. (Dh feels like the government is to blame, since they caused this )

I see Biden is now looking to raise my taxes to pay for all the stimulus. We should have a tzidoka organization helping out middle class families. If not for taxes I would be living comfortably.