Is a degree a waste of $ for kid w/o specific career plans

nicole81

Tue, May 04 2021, 4:01 pm

Both here and on other forms of social media, we see post all the time wondering how people afford things, wanting what we can't have, being in debt, shalom bayis issues bc of money, single mothers struggling to provide for their kids, gofundmes, etc.

Getting a college degree, while not a guarantee for parnassah, is the best first step someone can take to prevent them from ending up in such situations.

It's great that your dd hopes to move to Lakewood and have a bunch of kids, but she's probably also imagining having a home, nice sheitels, money to grab takeout when needed, taking the bunch of kids on outings, maybe having her own vehicle. No teen is imagining a life of abstention from all gashmius; more often it's a fairytale. IYH she will have everything she wants and needs, and getting a degree or training for a profession is her histadlus.

amother

Blonde

Tue, May 04 2021, 4:02 pm

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

No one in the professional world will look at her without a degree. They will want to see that she has a college education even if her degree has nothing to do with the job at hand. You are seriously holding her back and severely limiting her job options if you discourage her from getting a degree.

I agree with the above. My husband is looking for a new job now and although he is bright and experienced, he is having a hard time finding one because a BA is needed just to get in the door for an interview. Unless your daughter plans on only working for a frum company, where a degree may not be as necessary, options will be limited.

nicole81

Tue, May 04 2021, 4:14 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

Those are for spring or fall 2022 (but the essay topics haven’t been revealed yet so you can submit your application. For Fall 2021, CUNY and SUNY had a deadline of Feb 1 for applications. Deposit due May 1.
Trust me. Last week almost everyone I know with seniors was making a last minute decision.

** if you are now getting in off a waitlist, you can lose your deposit and go to a different school, but you would have needed to apply.

Um, I know how to read my professional emails, thanks. They are still recruiting for this fall. Programs aren't full, and no school is turning down a qualified applicant and their money because they didn't put in a deposit last week.

This is right off the CUNY website. As you can see, nearly all the 4-year schools are still open for applications.

honey36

Tue, May 04 2021, 4:22 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

I agree these can be good options for some people, but the ones who make good full-time money this way are the motivated go-getters. A lot of women dabble here and there and earn a little supplementary income, but the ones who earn a real living providing goods or services usually work very hard, at least during the early years when building up their business and reputation. It does not sound as if OP's daughter is very driven, although maybe that would change if she found the right field for her.

Most (all?) professional jobs require these skills as well. Just because you have a degree, doesn't mean your going to be able to find a good job very easily and not have to be motivated, work very hard, and build yourself up in your career. That's basically the same for all jobs whether you have a degree or not.

amother

Orange

Tue, May 04 2021, 4:29 pm

nicole81 wrote:

Guess it was Hunter that I checked as that was the one under consideration.

amother

Navy

Tue, May 04 2021, 4:31 pm

honey36 wrote:

For many professional jobs, you're right. But there are also many decent professional jobs where you can earn $50-100K for years without being particularly motivated or impressively hard working. To clear $50-100K in profit on a restaurant, catering business, or clothing store will usually be much harder work.

amother

Gold

Tue, May 04 2021, 5:00 pm

honey36 wrote:

That is not true at all.

There is a very different skill set that is entrepreneurial than for someone who is working in a corporation. Achieving in a corporation is a different skill set than working at a professional job where you don't have clients - I.e. as a scientist or IT speciaist.

There are many relatively well paying jobs where you come in and do the work competently. You don't have to bring in clients; you don't have to be a super political person.

I am not even bringing in the world of civil service positions where you need the degree and the ability to do the job. Many relatively high level positions are civil service and many of them don't require a specific "Major".

This is why it is sometimes extremely helpful to consult a career specialist because there are people who have professions that most people don't even realize are actually career paths.

amother

Blue

Tue, May 04 2021, 5:35 pm

I think she should wait a year or two before starting college. No harm in putting it off a bit while she figures things out. She should take a job during this time. Maybe she'll find she likes said job. Or maybe it'll be an eye opener that she doesn't want to be stuck with it and needs a degree to open more opportunities. A degree can absolutely be a waste if it ends up not being the right path for you. Better to take a year or two to figure things out than commit yourself to an expensive undertaking without any idea of where you're going with it.

amother

Brown

Tue, May 04 2021, 5:50 pm

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

I just want to point out that during the 1-2 years of "figuring things out" she can take the core classes that are required for ALL degrees, and she will have those credits regardless of whatever she decides to study in the end. Most colleges don't require you to declare a major until the 3rd year.

nicole81

Tue, May 04 2021, 7:11 pm

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

Absolutely. Either this or seminary so she can get college credits. and I don't think working part time while going to school is a bad idea, either, so she has prior experience if all she wants is an office job.

I'm also thinking about you and your husband OP; are you planning on supporting your DD? As professionals, I'm assuming (hoping) you have money put away for retirement. What will your dd do? Social security, while hardly enough, is going to be gone by the time our children retire. Your dd may have been raised on a different religious derech (as have my children), but fiscal responsibility is universal. You said that she's been raised yeshivish; if she wants to marry a learner, then it's even more important she sets herself up for financial success.

I think a good start would be to take one of those free online career quizzes to see what types of jobs suit her, and for her to start reading up on what those jobs look like in the day-to-day.

And on a personal note, I had no idea what I wanted to do when I started college. I even declared my major out of convenience, ie they were the only classes that met outside of my work hours. I worked a dead end office job and dabbled in classes over a few years. When I got pregnant with my first, I realized I needed to get my act together but I was soooo thankful I had half my credits done already, and it was extremely difficult having multiple children while finishing my BA. But BH I did. The right opportunity came along and it didn't matter what my major was; I just needed a degree. I ended up with 2 masters degrees as well, and I'm so thankful for my situation. Now with Covid and a husband whose business folded, I can BH support our family of 8 while dh is now getting a professional degree. My mother basically pressured me/threatened me LOL

to go to college and to continue after my first year when I didn't do well. I was living on my own at 19, working, having fun, etc, but somehow she managed to instill the fear of her wrath if I were to completely stop my studies. Doing something because you're pressured isn't always a bad thing. Sometimes parents actually do know what's best.

lovingmommy3417

Tue, May 04 2021, 7:19 pm

OP you seem to have made up your mind that your daughter doesnt need a degree. I just hope she doesnt resent you discouraging her from getting started. I had a mentor who completely misled me about finances after marriage/ children and I completely naively thought I could live off a small salary and I didnt need to go to college. I had no functional parents who could guide me at all so I listened to this person I trusted. I was a very naive kid and ended up getting married to an amazing husband who encouraged me to go to school to get a degree. It is a hard path and even though I am still very close to this mentor, part of me really resents how misleading she was to me.
ETA I just saw the OPs update.

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, May 04 2021, 7:23 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I feel better now that it won’t be a waste and I should encourage dd to go for it! Thanks so much for your help.

It comes in handy even later on down the road. You never know what comes down the road. I started college in my mid 30s and had to start from the bottom. There were others around my age who came in after me that had a much easier route. They either had some classes under their belt already, or already had a BA in another field and only needed a couple of classes to change course.

It rarely goes to waste. We do so many things in life without knowing the outcome, and not all the time we put them to use. But having such a tool in your belt that you can whip out anytime during your life really comes in handy, especially when life throws you a curveball.

dancingqueen

Tue, May 04 2021, 7:35 pm

zaq wrote:

Few college freshmen know exactly what they want to be when they grow up. Freshman year is usually devoted to trying to find out by taking courses in different areas and seeing what lights a fire.

Some jobs require a bachelor's degree even if the degree hasn't all that much to do with the work itself. Employers want employees with certain minimum competencies and assume that having a degree means you have those competencies.

I agree with you 💯. College is not vocational school, it’s a time to discover what you are good at, learn skills that are foundational to further studies or work, network, and dare I say have some carefree fun. But I know many frum communities have fashioned college into vocational school.

Op I guess she’s not going to seminary either?

amother

Tangerine

Tue, May 04 2021, 8:39 pm

I agree with the posters above who recommended getting core classes done while working at an office or other job. This can be done in a community college and an associates degree will be really helpful if she does choose to continue in anything later on. Going the community college route is definitely more time than a frum program (a lot more time!) and they likely won't accept many of her seminary credits. A frum program may also end up being cheaper if you don't qualify for financial aid.