Are they doing away with ishur?

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 3:34 am

amother [ Skyblue ] wrote:

I hate to say this but the zionist govt is out of control. Make zero sense. Economy is going down the drain. They don’t represent the Orthodox Jew. Their vaccine laws prove it.

Do you live in Israel? I hope not. Economy is not going down the drain. Life is going on and people are working and spending money again. And please dont lump all orthodox jews in one group. The government does represent many people. And many many orthodox jews here have gotten the vaccine so no idea what you are referring to in terms of the vaccine.

DrMom

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 3:39 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Seriously? I live here and literally have no idea what you are talking about. No insanity here at all.

This.

My kids are in school. My Dh and I are working. I went out to eat with my husband last week, went to a wedding 2 weeks ago, we have (or are) guests for Shabbat meals, my kids are going to their after-school activities, are going away to weekend trips with their youth groups, going on class trips, stores are all open, etc.

Life is fine. The only inconvenience is kids too young to vaccinate (or adults who chose not to vaccinate) need to get tested before they can get into certain indoor venues (movies, indoor restaurants, indoor concerts). Overall, life is very normal.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 3:44 am

Mollie wrote:

Please. Hate to break it to you but COVID is not going away anytime soon, there will be peaks and valleys every few months, despite what the Israeli incompetent govt will have you believe.

Look at Florida, the only state that was fully open from the start, now has the least amount of cases in the United States. Without the booster shot, what do you know.

Once winter hits in Israel and people are indoors more, the cases will go up again. No matter how many boosters the Govt is determined to force on to the population.

What are you talking about? People are and have been going to indoor places for months. Malls, restaurants, movies. Thankfully cases have not sky rocketed at all.

essie14

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 3:45 am

DrMom wrote:

Seriously. Life is extremely normal.
We are spending shabbat with friends, everyone in school and work, attending smachot and eating in restaurants.

Teomima

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 3:56 am

You can be upset if you like but the facts of the matter are A: unless you are a citizen of a country then no, you do not have the right to freely visit as you please and B: Israel as a country does have the right to limit who has access to our country based on what risks they pose to us the Israeli people. Usually those decisions are based on security risks, currently they include health risks. Our country is over 70% vaccinated (nearly all of those fully vaccinated) so admitting people who are vaccinated as well as a high priority. If someone brings covid into our country, WE are the ones paying the price. No one is entitled to put me and my family at risk, no matter how badly you want to visit.

It's not easy, I get it. We've been separated from immediate family, including elderly relatives, for nearly two years now. We all feel your pain. But your anger at our country is misplaced.

amother

Ecru

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 4:07 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

What are you talking about? People are and have been going to indoor places for months. Malls, restaurants, movies. Thankfully cases have not sky rocketed at all.

On Friday the Jerusalem marathon took place for the first time since corona started.
Yesterday thousands of people gathered in Chevron for Shabbat Chayei Sara.
School, universities, malls and restaurants are all open.
Yesterday across the entire country 224 people tested positive.

Cases are not skyrocketing. Life is continuing closer to normal than has happened since February 2020.

Quote:

Look at Florida, the only state that was fully open from the start, now has the least amount of cases in the United States. Without the booster shot, what do you know.

My friend was in Florida two weeks ago. She caught corona there, and had to delay her return to Israel.

amother

Babypink

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 4:14 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Is anyone with a brain making these laws? What's the deal with children?

And why are they discriminating against Americans with paper pcr tests and no digital proof? How is any of this ok? We are all recovered, have antibodies, and vaccinated everyone eligible. That should be enough.

Now what am I supposed to do? What gives them the right to ban another jew from Israel? Its so wrong.

Because we're all sick of entitled people who forge PCRs and vaccination certificates because they think they have a right to put our entire country (and everything we've sacrificed to get here) at risk, just so that they can visit.

If you are upset at being locked out of Israel, the answer is simple. Make aliya.

No country owes citizens of another country an opportunity to bring in infectious diseases. Especially now with the new vaccine-resistant variants, we can't afford to take any risks.

FTR and FWIW I don't agree with this new reform. I think there WILL be many forgeries, especially if they cave and allow paper proofs instead of just digital. I think it was much better to keep it ishur-only for a limited number of first-degree relatives.

Yes there were forgeries but when only certain people can enter, the scope is limited. Opening the gates to everyone who is either vaccinated or who manages to forge a certificate carries a lot more risk.

What's wrong is the number of people forging test results and vaccine certificates. That's what's wrong.

Children will be able to enter if they are vaccinated, if I understand correctly. Given that children over 5 should be able to be vaccinated within the next week or so, it shouldn't be too much of an issue. Little children under 6 were allowed in anyways, and they may still be, but they may not be, and nothing is final.

The advice as to what to do was to move your ticket up to before November 1, if you already had an ishur. By now that's not so relevant, other than for a select few. Sorry about that.

I do hope and pray (as an Israeli) that they don't go through with this change and leave things as is. But I also want you to understand why things are the way they are, and why they are talking about digital proof only. And that they wouldn't be talking about it, if so many people hadn't forged and faked and lied.

amother

Babypink

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 4:16 am

Teomima wrote:

And many of those who have had only one dose are also machlimim, so they are technically "fully" vaccinated, even if the numbers show only one dose.

amother

Babypink

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 4:28 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It's my country just as much as it's their country. What gives one Jew a right to tell another Jew they can't come to Eretz Yisroel?

I'm not endangering anyone and neither are my covid recovered toddlers.

That may be, but you need to understand that when any law is made, there will be people who benefit and people who don't, and people who fall through the cracks and need to abide by the law even though it doesn't apply to them.

amother

Babypink

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 4:30 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Israeli beurocrats aren't known for doing things that make sense...

I feel like moshiach needs to come because we are in a situation where Jews are literally banning other Jews from Eretz Yisroel. That is the saddest thing in the world.

For the first while I got it. It's a pandemic. We want to be careful. At this point though, I feel like it's gone too far. Is my mother never supposed to see her grandchildren?

Can your mother not come to visit you?

moonstone

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 4:40 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It's my country just as much as it's their country. What gives one Jew a right to tell another Jew they can't come to Eretz Yisroel?

OP, I was feeling bad for you until your sense of entitlement took over. This is not just a Jewish wonderland where Jews can come and go as they please; its an actual country with a government and laws that everyone has to follow. This country isn't run based on "can a jew do this to another jew," thank goodness.

And since you're not a citizen, it's not "your country." Those of us who are citizens are affected by the law too. Plenty of us have relatives who would like to visit but can't.

moonstone

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 4:56 am

amother [ Skyblue ] wrote:

I hate to say this but the zionist govt is out of control. Make zero sense. Economy is going down the drain. They don’t represent the Orthodox Jew. Their vaccine laws prove it.

I am so sick of hearing about the evil "Zionist government." I don't always agree with what the government does, but that is true of everyone in every country in the world. We have a state and a government, thank G-d. For 73 years now. Get used to it and stop whining about it. I suppose you'd be happier if we were still under British rule? Would everything magically be better then?

Your post is just ridiculous. How is the government out of control? By trying to keep people safe from Covid? Oh, the horror! And the economy is not going down the drain. Lahefech. And the government has a large number of Orthodox Jewish ministers, so how are Orthodox Jews not represented, exactly? And how do the vaccine laws prove any bias against Orthodox Jews? The laws apply to everyone, regardless of religion!

BTW, if you're so sure of your opinions, why not proudly post them under your username? 🙄

essie14

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 6:16 am

moonstone wrote:

👏 👏 👏
Couldn't have said it better myself.

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 6:44 am

I am going to Israel with my son and husband this week. Last minute since they just changed the rules. We are going for a wedding. My son has a recovery cert which lets him in and we have both been vaccinated. (and we are both recovered too within 180 days). There is a small window of time that we can go since I am not sure if/when we will be getting third boosters, or if they will vaccinate younger kids where I live.

I don't object to taking a PCR test before we fly, or one when we land. I do object to the expensive and time consuming test we have to take BEFORE we leave Israel. We are both vaccinated and recovered, we don't need it to fly back to our country. (our vax/recovery certs are fine for that) If we were Israeli we would not have to take it. It's really tough on little kids and its crazy that I was considering not going to this wedding becasue I wasn't sure if my son could handle it.

yes yes yes we should have made aliya. Blah blah blah. But my country is full of Israelis who CHOSE TO LEAVE ISRAEL to live in other countries and they do not have to abide by these rules. My daughter chose to study in israel but was not allowed to finish her year that she had paid for and had a valid student visa for.

And hundreds and thousands of people who chose to make aliya have had a stressful miserable time the past two years with parents and family hardly able to visit without jumping through a million hoops. Hardly a way to encourage future aliya!

(BTW the USA is absolutely no better in this regard, but the USA is not actively encouraging people to immigrate there)

Oh and if the Isreali government was serious about covid safety, why were things like meron happening with thousands of people crowded together? I guess the chareidi voters outnumber olim so they have more rights. Well that is democracy for you, but countries also need to recognise the rights of minorities.

amother

Babypink

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 6:47 am

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

Are you referring to the PCR before leaving Israel? We definitely DID have to take it and they DID ask for it before allowing us to check in.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

The first person in our family to do it, did it at Assuta and it cost about 300. After that we got smart and looked for deals, and paid 110 per person through MADA.

BTW if you are going to make arguments, make sure they are valid. Meron happened during the shefel, when the number of cases was dropping drastically and things were very much under control. It didn't happen when numbers were high and it also didn't significantly increase the number of infections.

Elfrida

Sun, Oct 31 2021, 6:58 am

Considering the amount of threads that have been here over the past months complaining about the difficulty of getting an ishur, I'm finding it amusing that people are now complaining that there is no ishur. Many of the arguments given in this thread about the new system are exactly the same as those that people were giving against the ishur.

The bottom line is that Israel, like every other country, prioritizes it's own (tax paying) citizens and their health above tourists. All Jews have a G-d given right to live in this land. Those who choose not to take up that right, don't have an automatic right to visit whenever it suits them.