Spending money when others are in need

cassandra

Wed, May 14 2008, 5:40 pm

Miriamf, I agree with you. I was just about to post that I am privy to knowledge about a lot of the charitable giving in my community, and usually the big anonymous donors are the ones who are still driving and wearing their things from the seventies. You would never think that these people had any sort of money, yet they are major contributors. Clarissa, it seems that you are saying these people are foolish. I admire them greatly. I don't know if I'll ever be like them, and I don't beat myself up for having certain weaknesses, but I don't think that using your money for material things that aren't necessities is ideal.

I am kind of a libertarian and I truly believe that people of different financial means can co-exist peacefully in a society where people are morally motivated to give to others rather than being forced into it by the government. This can only happen if people start looking into themselves and figuring out where their values lie and what they truly need.

Last edited by cassandra on Wed, May 14 2008, 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

Fox

Wed, May 14 2008, 5:58 pm

cassandra-who-is-not-clarissa wrote:

Fox, can you be my life coach? Or at least my financial advisor?

Wow! I am the worst money manager I know! My only -- and I do mean "only" strength is that I don't use credit cards. But my electricity may be off at any given time because DH and I didn't keep track of when the bill was due.

clarissa-who-is-not-cassandra wrote:

One was a nearly-new Coach bag. So I support her over-spending whole-heartedly.

Well, no one said we discussing Coach bags. There is obviously an exemption for Coach bags -- especially those nice Coach Classic bags and briefcases! Seriously, though, I agree with you.

The problem I see is that people use the "better quality/fewer items" argument as a rationalization for overspending. They tell themselves they'll only get one good bag instead of five cheaper ones -- but they end up buying all six. I'm told that people in Europe are/were more attuned to this -- they're more impressed with someone who wears the same Hermes scarf twice a week than someone who has a constantly rotating wardrobe of scarves, etc.

cassandra-who-is-not-clarissa wrote:

I am very conscious of the little details in design and construction that make the difference between the expensive bag and the Target knock-off.

This, IMHO, would be a good reason to spend more. Of course, the question is "how much more?", and that's where it becomes so difficult. The more we know and appreciate fine workmanship, the harder it is to say, "Second or third best is really good enough for me." My own blind spot is sterling silver. I'll wear a $29.99 shaitel and eat spaghetti six times a week, but I want to eat it with sterling flatware.

maya wrote:

I was just wondering if I should not allow myself to splurge on something because others can't afford it.

The fact that you're even thinking about this probably suggests that your spending is not the cause of rampant consumerism in the velt, so I'd recommend you enjoy! And if you're buying new Coach bags, keep me and Clarissa in mind for your cast-offs!

Clarissa

Wed, May 14 2008, 6:03 pm

cassandra wrote:

Clarissa, it seems that you are saying these people are foolish. I admire them greatly.

I'm not saying that at all. I'll explain later. Things are falling apart over here (sick child, Playdough explosion on my husband's precious rug, matzo crumbs everywhere without any idea how it happened) and I can't concentrate.

Anybody know how to get Playdough out of kids' clothes if it's all mashed in? I don't want to ruin the washing machine. Yes, I love my washing machine. I'm a materialistic washing machine lover.

_______________
I'm not Cassandra. She's smarter, more well-versed in halacha, and appears to show greater respect for those who don't spend money needlessly.

Shirley

Wed, May 14 2008, 6:07 pm

Maya,

The very fact that you are asking this question and are having qualms is indicative of a conscience that won’t be ignored. Your follow-up statements of justification should have, and would have, been enough to have had you buy the bag you desired - - if it wasn’t for a little voice that kept on telling you that spending money on something so frivolous is, if not quite ‘wrong’, then not quite ‘right’ either.

It’s all been said by previous posters, so there’s little point in repeating. The fact that materialism takes your focus off what is important... That money is too precious a commodity to ‘blow’ on what we don’t really need.... And more than that, the frequent comments of disbelief of how those that can’t afford it – always tend to spend, could be directly tied to the fact that those that could afford, have raised the standards by creating a more expensive ‘norm’.

My perfect example would be the Bugaboo. Disregarding its clever, comfortable and convenient design, we’d have to agree that in a community not all that rich, too many do in fact have it. And seriously Maya, do you think it would have ever become as prevalent and popular in the community, if those that COULD afford it – wouldn’t?

Clarissa

Wed, May 14 2008, 6:12 pm

I'm curious. Would the women who responded in this post be willing to reveal if they own diamond engagement rings? And how many pairs of shoes and suits do you own? Do you guy new clothes for holidays, for yourself and your children? Do you guy and serve kosher meat often, and what does that cost?

I'd like to know what everyone's money is going for, if we're going to allow ourselves to discuss the purchase of a $150 handbag.

Clarissa

Wed, May 14 2008, 6:17 pm

cassandra wrote:

I was just about to post that I am privy to knowledge about a lot of the charitable giving in my community, and usually the big anonymous donors are the ones who are still driving and wearing their things from the seventies. You would never think that these people had any sort of money, yet they are major contributors. Clarissa, it seems that you are saying these people are foolish. I admire them greatly. I don't know if I'll ever be like them, and I don't beat myself up for having certain weaknesses, but I don't think that using your money for material things that aren't necessities is ideal.

I am kind of a libertarian and I truly believe that people of different financial means can co-exist peacefully in a society where people are morally motivated to give to others rather than being forced into it by the government. This can only happen if people start looking into themselves and figuring out where their values lie and what they truly need.

No, I don't think they're foolish. I am a person who almost never buys new clothes. The dress I wore to last week's bar mitzvah is the dress I wear to every simcha for the last seven years. I bought my winter coat in 1996. I almost never buy shoes until I'm dragged to a shoestore by a friend. The last purse I bought was two years ago and it cost $35. So I'm a poster child for not spending on frivolous items. I think it's wonderful that some big donors out there aren't tacky, nouveau riche, ostentatious. My wealthiest friend uses a Maclaren and not a Bugaboo. I would never make fun of people who don't spend ridiculous amounts of money on unnecessary items. I am one of them, although I'm certainly not wealthy. But buying stuff just isn't my style, whether I have money or not. Still, as I said earlier, I'm not stingy about certain things. Am I allowed to decide that these things are important to me? Do you think I'm frivolous because I own a lot of cookbooks and cooking gear? Do I have the right to say you're frivolous because you felt it was justifiable to buy an expensive piece of jewelry just because you decided to get married?

Who gets to make these decisions here?

First, somebody start by answering my questions about what you own. Then we'll talk.

cassandra

Wed, May 14 2008, 6:23 pm

Clarissa wrote:

Forgot to say that I'm happy to give to others, even when forced by the government. I think government programs to help poor people are essential in today's society. I'm happy to give to programs that help people and aren't used for military aggression, as long as they're not faith-based programs.

Ah, but when you give it to the government the choice is no longer yours (perhaps very indirectly). Come over to our team, where we genuinely care about people but don't think that's the job of the government.

Clarissa

Wed, May 14 2008, 6:28 pm

cassandra wrote:

Thank you, no. Your team enables very wealthy people and corporations to have all sorts of ways to avoid giving. I'd rather risk giving to things I find irksome, as long as there's some effort to give to those who need it. Sorry, but after seeing what this administration tried to do to Head Start, I'd rather give and give if it'll help poor kids, even if sometimes it means I have to help pay for military expenses or even for congressmen to bring their girlfriends on junkets to Barbados.

Last edited by Clarissa on Wed, May 14 2008, 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

gonewiththewind

Wed, May 14 2008, 6:30 pm

Clarissa, Playdough will not ruin your washing machine. My washing maching is alive and has washed many a playdoughed outfit. Do you really love your washing machine? If so, then your problem is much greater than being materialistic. You are looking for love in all the wrong places. As much as you love your washing machine it will never love you back. I think you also once mentioned you love your kitchen-aid. Maybe you have an appliance fixation. But I digress, this is not the intimacy section. But it does sound like your husband loves the rug. So maybe you are well-matched after all.
And why do you still have matzo around! Get rid of it! What is going on in your house? Maybe you actually need to be little more materialistic, then you would be be motivated to clean the material objects in your house. Your husband will be thrilled and you will live happily ever after. But I digess again, this is not the sholom bayis section.
I don't believe anyone can sit or should sit in judgement of everyone's possessions. Every case is individual.

And Fox, Maya is only talking about buying a $150 bag, so you don't get too excited about her cast-offs. And maybe consider automtic bill pay.

Clarissa

Wed, May 14 2008, 6:34 pm

miriamf wrote:

I wept as I read this post. It's like you have a window into my soul.

cassandra

Wed, May 14 2008, 6:38 pm

Clarissa wrote:

And those tax shelters and seemingly unjust laws are allowing Bill Gates and Warren Buffet to improve schools in this country as well as save countless African lives. For a liberal you seem to have a very low opinion of humanity. Give us some credit.

cassandra

Wed, May 14 2008, 6:40 pm

Clarissa wrote:

miriamf wrote:

I wept as I read this post. It's like you have a window into my soul.

I once called Miriamf "clarissaesque". She denied it, but I know both of your souls.