Spending money when others are in need

Clarissa

Thu, May 15 2008, 8:36 am

I agree with you, Louche, in spite of the fact that I refuse to condemn those who spend money. Frankly, I find ostentatious spending often shows a lack of individuality. I find certain brand name products and designers just look tacky and unoriginal, although I do appreciate quality.

Nobody has answered my question. I'm still waiting. Do the women in this thread wear diamond jewelry?

Seraph

Thu, May 15 2008, 8:53 am

Clarissa wrote:

I'm curious. Would the women who responded in this post be willing to reveal if they own diamond engagement rings? And how many pairs of shoes and suits do you own? Do you guy new clothes for holidays, for yourself and your children? Do you guy and serve kosher meat often, and what does that cost?

I'd like to know what everyone's money is going for, if we're going to allow ourselves to discuss the purchase of a $150 handbag.

I have a diamond engagement ring with 1 small diamond and 25 tiny diamonds on it, not so expensive and my in lawds wouldnt let me get way without one, had I even wanted that. I like to buy new clothes for the chag and will maximum spend 30 shekel on a new outfit, though I prefer going to the second hand clothing store and getting my y't clothes for 2 shekel instead of 30. I serve chicken for shabbos only, and I own lots of pairs of payless shoes.

mimivan

Thu, May 15 2008, 8:53 am

Clarissa wrote:

I have one diamond ring that is in a safe storage place. I sometimes wear it at home during chagim, but avoid wearing it out or in front of guests...I feel it is very special..but for me (maybe not for someone else) a bit ostentatious to wear in front of others(or certain others)...particularly in my kind of community.

cassandra

Thu, May 15 2008, 9:07 am

Clarissa wrote:

I fail to see the relevance of this to any of my other statements, but yes. I wear multiple diamond items on a daily basis. (So now I feel like Marie Antoinette. Happy?)

Seraph

Thu, May 15 2008, 9:08 am

I was actually just having this duscussion with my husband, our frequent "When we're rich, I would love to ___" and I was saying how I'd want to decorate a house when we have the money to, and my husband is dead set against it. He thinks any money you have beyond basic neccesties should be given away and saved to give as yerusha. He said he thinks the difference between wealthy and poor should be- you have teh same bills, but the poor worry how they'll pay their 500 shekel electric bill while the rich takes out his card and pays it.

I disagree for the reason that freidasima said- you were given soomething for a reason. you werent given money so you can store it under a rock. Use it. Live comfortably. Give tzedaka. But still live comfortably. You dont need to falunt it, but you can definitely use it to make your life more convinient. You have money and hate cleaning and can afford a live in maid? Why not? If others will get jealous if they see u have a live in, get a cleaning lady every day, see if I care.
Don't have ostentatious chandeleirs if no one else in your community has one, but no one knows if your suit cost 500 dollars or you got it for 30 shekel second hand from a gemach.

I like my rich freinds. I admire them. One of them lives in a mansion, and instead of getting jealous, I bask in her wealth. She treats us to expensive restaurants. I'm glad she's rich and I'm glad she foots the bill. She has a heart to match her pocket.

Another rich freind of mine has a fancy house and a bugaboo, etc... But she works as a cleaning lady on occasion to make some spare cash for her "nonsense".

I think if u have money, be generous with it, but also be generous to yourself.

amother

Thu, May 15 2008, 9:20 am

Clarissa wrote:

M<y engagement ring is a very modest one that many people would consider suitable for a HS graduation gift at most, but I never expected to have a diamond at all. I wore it the first few weeks we were engaged in order to have something to show when people would ask "ooooh, lemme see the ring!" After that the ring went back in the box and comes out only on special occasions like weddings. Even then, if I noticed that the people around me didn't have anything comparable, I'd turn the stone around to face my palm. I'd rather be the least flashy woman in the room than the most.

That's the only "significant" piece of jewelry I own. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. Wearing expensive things makes me nervous. I'd rather not have things that would be a major blow if they were lost or stolen.

Clarissa

Thu, May 15 2008, 9:22 am

cassandra wrote:

I fail to see the relevance of this to any of my other statements, but yes. I wear multiple diamond items on a daily basis. (So now I feel like Marie Antoinette. Happy?)

I'm trying to make the point that it's very easy to judge someone because they spent a certain amount on a bag, but we all have areas where we spend more than we need. If we put a magnifying glass to anybody else's life, I'm sure we could judge. We once applied for financial aid at school. It was strange to apply, knowing that we have some savings and aren't broke. But all things are not equal, if examined more closely. We almost never take vacations and almost never have a sitter. We buy very little, outside of necessities. One of our children has a disease that's prohibitively expensive to treat if it flares up. So can we be compared to a family that goes away once a year, has a car, sometimes has a sitter, and has no threat of medical expenses over their heads? It's tough. My point is that we (and I include myself in this, because I'm considered the least materialistic among my friends) can make a very good argument for not buying a purse that costs $150. But if I looked at any of our lives, I could find some silly way that money was spent, that could have had a much more valuable use elsewhere. So lofty statements can have a hollow ring, especially if you're waving a diamond ring as you type them.

cassandra

Thu, May 15 2008, 9:32 am

I don't think I was judging others, only myself. Like I said, I understand the human condition and the desire for things that aren't necessities, I am as guilty of that as anyone, perhaps even more so. But I do wonder as to whether my desire for and indulgence in these things is ultimately good for me or anyone else.

Maybe I'm naturally aware of this because thank God I can afford certain things but DON'T buy them because I am not a showy person (at least in my own opinion.) But when I do by something I want I often have second thoughts about whether or not it was the right decision and what I have ultimately gained by the item. A washing machine that keeps your family's clothing clean and sanitary and looking presentable and allows you more time to spend with your children or do things you love or make women around the world laugh is not the same thing as deciding whether or not you should upgrade from wearing a .5 carat diamond in each ear to a 1 carat diamond in each ear. When I talk about my struggles with materialism it has to do with things that are truly frivolous by anyone's standards, and that is what bothers me, especially since I don't consider myself a frivolous person.

Man, I wish I had posted this as amother.

Fox

Thu, May 15 2008, 9:58 am

louche wrote:

These families weren't misers and didn't dress in rags, but they stuck to "shvil hazahav"--the golden mean--in all things.

This is really the answer. Drifting too far to one extreme or the other isn't really healthy for a variety of reasons. But it's not always easy to determine the correct course, and increased wealth and consumerism in our communities has made the job harder.

gonewiththewind

Thu, May 15 2008, 11:13 am

Clarissa wrote:

Clarissa, as you said, when you got married, you did not belong to a social group that thought diamond engagement rings are a necessity. Although I think the frum world should change, in the frum world diamond engagement rings are generally a given, and they are from the inlaws usually as well. It is a whole different type of thing. You can't really compare societies. So yes, most people here have diamond rings even though they may not have health insurance or a car. Crazy? Ya. But it is the way it is. If you can help me change it I am all for it. After all, as your soul expert, I think you have a piece of Moshe in there. Maybe we cn start the Claritzker chassidim with clarissa for Rebbe. Now that is a chassidus I could go for.

Atali

Thu, May 15 2008, 11:19 am

miriamf wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

Right. When I got married, I got a diamond ring from my in-laws (which I never wear anyway). I would have been fine without it, but it was just something that everyone did.

louche

Thu, May 15 2008, 11:51 am

cassandra wrote:

You heretics are going to get this thread banned.

[

Nah. Threads get locked or deleted. Posters get banned, though I haven't heard about that happening here. Would an announcement be made or would the person just disappear? is that what happened to all the people mentioned in the "where is...." threads?

louche

Thu, May 15 2008, 11:57 am

cassandra wrote:

You heretics are going to get this thread banned.

Though I have a problem with "Rebbe" concept, I'm willing to make an exception here.

The Maid of Ludomir set a precedent for a Rebbe-nette (logo is a kitchen cupboard carved in the shape of a rebbe), so you can go for it.