Carrots from Israel

Imaonwheels

Sat, May 17 2008, 11:17 pm

Not only heter mechira, but stam frei operations that keep nothing.

And Tamiri, you are wrong. We work with Otzar HaAretz and their is a lot of strife because they agreed also to handle heter mechira and the bulk of their customers don't want it. The oleh Miotzrayim also does sell in many places.

The problem is that some of their rabbonim are pushing heter mechira and some are against. We have to fight with them because it is written in our agreement only chu"l and otzar BD. Because we are small they want to shove on us what larger customers refuse - heter mechira and oleh mitzrayim. There problem is that there most enthusiatic supporter do not want it and they lost thousands of stores because they are trying top keep 2 opposing forces happy.

catonmylap

Sat, May 17 2008, 11:31 pm

grin wrote:

no, I think there's more awareness in general and a phenomena of D"L becoming more chareidi also over the years. (There is a representation of us here on this site.)
There are also more farmers keeping shemita kehilchoso than there used to be and I've seen many more shemita stores over the years.

I feel the difference this time is there more a negative anti-nochri sentiment in the DL world because of the political situation at this time.. Therefore, there are more people who are eating Heter Mechira or being strict about only Otzar haaretz.

We personally have bought some Heter Mechira this time in certain situations, when last time around, we were more makpid not to. We are also definitely buying more otzar haaretz than last time(its the majority of what we buy). I also feel some guilt when I buy nochri which I didn't last time around.

Tamiri

Sat, May 17 2008, 11:46 pm

Imaonwheels wrote:

And Tamiri, you are wrong. We work with Otzar HaAretz and their is a lot of strife because they agreed also to handle heter mechira and the bulk of their customers don't want it. The oleh Miotzrayim also does sell in many places.

I stand behind what I wrote: most of the country could not care less where their produce comes from. They would not know Otzar HaAretz from Yivul Nochri from a hole in the wall. They don't know Negev/Golan/Israel proper. They know they want their produce and they will buy it no matter what. Also, many many people I know are combining Otzar with Heter!
I don't think that what you see out in Yitzhar/Yesh(a)/Religious communities is indicative of the rest of the country.
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Pizza

Sun, May 18 2008, 1:30 am

YOu can easily tell if they are shmitta, they will say on the package "Kedushat Shviit" or something along those lines.

If you are still neurotic about it, there is still no reason you cant use them. After all, plenty of people in Israel are using them - you just need to familiarize yourself with the halachot. What an amazing opportunity!

Basically, shmitta produce must be treated with respect - dont toss leftovers; dispose of peels, etc by double-wrapping, or waiting for it to get yukky and add to your compost [ile (am I the only one in imamother land who composts - thats another thread!)

SIMPLE

No need to panic.

Enjoy!

shalhevet

Sun, May 18 2008, 1:59 am

Pizza wrote:

YOu can easily tell if they are shmitta, they will say on the package "Kedushat Shviit" or something along those lines.

I doubt it very much. Anyway, one of the halachos of kedushas shviis is that it is forbidden to take the produce out of EY. You are also forbidden to trade it.

Quote:

If you are still neurotic about it, there is still no reason you cant use them. After all, plenty of people in Israel are using them - you just need to familiarize yourself with the halachot. What an amazing opportunity!

I hardly think finding out halachos is being neurotic. If her rav holds they are sefichim of course she can't use them.

Quote:

Basically, shmitta produce must be treated with respect - dont toss leftovers; dispose of peels, etc by double-wrapping, or waiting for it to get yukky and add to your compost [ile (am I the only one in Imamother land who composts - thats another thread!)

There are many more halachas. And as I said one is that you can't take them out of EY.

Quote:

SIMPLE

Not at all.

Quote:

No need to panic.

Enjoy!

Who said panic? She needs to ask her rav. Anyway she said she hadn't bought them yet, and you are not allowed to buy kedushas 7 in the usual way, apart from all the other problems.

shalhevet

Sun, May 18 2008, 2:03 am

grin wrote:

ask your LOR. If he doesn't accept the heter mechira (as mine doesn't), then those carrots may be forbidden produce and treif, not kedushas shvi'is which must be treated respectfully according to halacha.

Grin, it's not so simple. They can be assur to eat and ALSO kedushas shviis (our rav holds like this) because they were grown during shemitta.

Don't tell me about it - I have a bottle of wine I was given 13 years ago that is heter mechira. We can't drink it and we can't throw it away until it spoils... Confused

hila

Sun, May 18 2008, 2:03 am

All the above about treatment of Kdushat Shviit produce applies to those eating it in ISRAEL .

1. it is forbidden to take KS produce outside of Israel.

2. When a farmer sells his land for Heter mechira, he is NOT allowed to export that produce. The HM, as far as I know is for EY only !

3. the produce may have been 6th year produce kept cold since tehn, If not, then it is very problematic halachically.

Ribbie Danzinger

Sun, May 18 2008, 2:12 am

Dorot probably means that the carrot are from Kibbutz Dorot. Info about the kibbutz (as far as I can make out): not far from Chadera; a non-dati kibbutz. The carrots may not even be heter mechirah and the land may have been worked in a prohibited manner during the shemita.

mummy-bh

Sun, May 18 2008, 2:24 am

So interesting..... you in EY learn the halachos that apply to you (obviously!) but I have no clue about much of what you are speaking!

Here's what I learnt -
Basically, stay away from any EY produce at the moment; if it is here it has been farmed in a prohibited manner. ordinarily I buy such produce but must take maaser. Anything I buy now must have it's country of origin clearly labeled, so that I know it's OK.

ChossidMom

Sun, May 18 2008, 3:13 am

Pizza wrote:

YOu can easily tell if they are shmitta, they will say on the package "Kedushat Shviit" or something along those lines.

WRONG.

Vegetables which are Heter Mechira do NOT have a label about Kedushas Shevi'is

Quote:

"Plenty" of people may be using them but you have to ask your own rav if it is ok for you. The people that use them either do so because their rav paskened that they could/should or out of ignorance.

Quote:

WRONG.

If vegetables are heter mechira and your rav paskens that is is ossur to eat heter mechira then all the double wrapping in the world is not going to help. Saving peels etc. is meant for Otzar Bes Din produce, which means that it was grown by Jews that follow the laws of Shmitta.
Heter Mechira produce is grown by Jews that do not keep the special laws of shmitta, I.e. they continue to work the land but rely on the "heter mechira" (that the land was sold to non Jews).

For people who do not hold by heter mechira it IS like eating treif. For people who hold by rabbonim that say they can - it's fine. All depends who your rav is and how he holds.

catonmylap

Sun, May 18 2008, 3:25 am

[quote="ChossidMom"]

Pizza wrote:

If you hold that they are not treif, you might hold that you have to treat them with kedushat shiivit. We treat all heter mechira produce with kedushat shiviit.

ora_43

Sun, May 18 2008, 4:10 am

grin wrote:

I don't think DL are becoming more chareidi, unless you're making the mistake of using the word "chareidi" to mean "more machmir." Wink

I think more frum people are becoming uncomfortable with heter mechira due to the changing situation. Their opinion that it was OK to use 14 years ago might not make them OK with it today, when there are more Jews here, fewer Jews in chul, Israel's economy is stronger, more imports are available, etc.

I agree with catonmylap that politics also plays a part.

ora_43

Sun, May 18 2008, 4:17 am

It's not only ha'adamah that is the problem, btw. Carrots are problematic now, and will be into next year. Several fruits are already problematic, that is to say they are sheviit/heter mechira by now. So if you see shesek (kumquat?) or peaches or other fruits from eretz Israel, it's best not to buy.

There are calanders that tell you when to start worrying about different fruits and vegetables (that is to say, when it is that they are no longer considered 6th year produce). Peaches and grapes are already sheviit, apples and oranges I think are still OK, or at least were until very recently.

Keep in mind that sheviit will be an issue next year as well! If you live abroad you can start buying Israeli carrots and peppers and whatever else sometime next year (not right away), but apples, grapes, oranges, etc, will be an issue well into 2009. Israeli produce isn't always labeled as such so it's really something to be careful with. Also kosher wines from Israel--make sure to check that they aren't heter mechira if you don't hold by that.

shalhevet

Sun, May 18 2008, 4:35 am

grin wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

Don't tell me about it - I have a bottle of wine I was given 13 years ago that is heter mechira. We can't drink it and we can't throw it away until it spoils... Confused

but that's fruit and as such, should be kedushas shevi'is and not asur like sefichim?

There is also an issur of using something 'shamur v'neevad' that was guarded (ie not made hefker) and worked not in accordance with halacha.

shalhevet

Sun, May 18 2008, 4:37 am

grin wrote:

the difference is that the isur of svichin, that the food is asur to eat, is davka grains and veggies, not fruit, which grow from year to year on the same trees.

Yes, but see my post above, plus you are not allowed to buy anything with kedushas shviis in the usual way (there are halachically acceptable ways used by those buying/ selling otzar beis din products). (I wonder if you are allowed to eat it in chul if someone else already sent it there - I don't know.)