Help me figure out if I can do this chesed (lending house)

amother

Begonia

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:17 pm

Considering that my ds is busting a gut trying to find lodgings for our extended family as we all live in different states and none of us can accommodate all of us in their own house, I hope that you, OP, can find it in your heart to do this chessed. Maybe it's even my family you're talking about, though I don't know that any of my kids qualifies as a "large" family. The ONLY way I can spend a YT with all my kids at the same time is if multiple people open their homes to us. Even if we wanted to or could afford to stay in a hotel, there are no such accommodations within walking areance of any of our kids or of us, for that matter.

I totally understand why you would be hesitant to agree, and I give you credit, OP, for even thinking about it. I'm not at all sure I would agree were I in your shoes. But for the sake of the family that is desperately trying to spend YT with loved ones and can do so only if generous people make it possible, I hope you will say yes and that the family you so graciously allow to use your home are gracious, careful and considerate in return.

amother

Mustard

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:20 pm

amother Begonia wrote:

I think it’s horrible for you to put pressure on someone who struggles with this chesed. People can ask around if anyone would volunteer to host people’s relatives but to put pressure on them is inexcusable.

amother

Forsythia

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:23 pm

amother Begonia wrote:

Most people don't host all their kids at once.

amother

Mustard

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:31 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

OP thank you so much for posting. This is a super timely thread and I've been going around in circles in my head trying to deal with it.

The person who asked me is a neighbor I don't even know. She kept saying, you won't even know they're there. It will be no work for you. They can even bring their own linen.

Anything I tried to say was pooh poohed. Oh it's so not a big deal. And I really need where to put them.

But to me it is a big deal. And I kept trying to figure out how to get out of this, and what excuse to make, and if I made a huge mistake letting it slip that I wouldn't be home (she wanted me to have her guests while I was home! And I don't have any private bedrooms)

But after reading this thread I'm going to try and tell her, I'm very uncomfortable and that's it. It's hard because I hate confrontation and she made it very clear that there's nothing for me to be uncomfortable about.

OK ... I guess I'll think of you OP and we can do this together.

I so understand your discomfort but I don’t think you should even say you’re “not comfortable,” because that’ll give her an opening to keep saying, “no reason to be uncomfortable, they’ll be fine, etc.” I think you should just say, “I’m sorry but I’m not going to be able to accommodate you.” If she keeps pushing, repeat the same line, no matter how much she pushes or tries to convince you… “I’m sorry but I won’t be able to.” No excuses.

amother

Mustard

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:32 pm

amother Diamond wrote:

I would
I really have nothing to hide
I would ask if after they leave can they have a cleaning lady come clean up, wash all linens and towels, bathrooms, make beds so you come to a fresh house
I f don’t think that’s too much to ask

Haha they’d never agree to all that… a cleaning lady? It’d be cheaper for them to stay in a motel.

WhatFor

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:43 pm

amother Floralwhite wrote:

And I echo the poster that said to give a general answer with a clear no. "I'm so sorry I discussed it with my husband and it won't work. Thanks for understanding!"

Also boundaries for some are easier set through text/whatsapp etc

I came here to say this exactly, except without the I'm sorry, but maybe I'm not as nice. :p "After discussing it with my husband, we decided/realized it's not going to work for us this year."

To that poster with the neighbor who keeps pressuring, when she says, "why? It's so easy, you won't notice them, blah blah blah" Just keep repeating like a broken record, "I understand your position on this. Like I said, after discussing it with my husband, we decided it's not going to work for us this year."

If she keeps badgering you, questioning, etc, keep repeating above. I know you wrote you hate confrontation, but if she says anything that's starting to get to the "fight" level, "There's no reason for this to become an uncomfortable situation. We're simply unable to help you with this right now but I hope it all works out for you. I need to go now but all the best."

amother

Clematis

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:52 pm

amother Begonia wrote:

Sorry, but you come across as a bit selfish. If you don't have room for all your kids, then you don't spend yom tov everyone together. Most people don't. You don't put pressure on others to do something they're not comfortable doing because you want to spend yom tov with all kids together.

BetsyTacy

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:05 pm

amother Clematis wrote:

I agree and I will say it under my screen name.

amother

Begonia

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:06 pm

amother Mustard wrote:

Where do you see pressure? Did I criticize OP for being reluctant? Did I tell OP she was being selfish and ruining someone else's YT? I didn't tell OP she must or even should do anything. I merely said I hoped she would see her way to accommodating this family--which, BTW, is NOT mine. However, having been in the position of having to look for lodgings for guests and having been told no, I can put myself in the would-be guest's shoes just as easily as I can put myself in OP's.

Cheeses of Nazareth, some of you imas are quick to take offense over something that is zero of your business. Am I asking YOU to put up my guests?

tichellady

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:08 pm

I say figure out your boundaries and then tell them. it’s fine to say the master bedroom and bathroom are off limits. you can ask them to pay for a cleaning person or tell them they will need to make their own beds etc. if it feels too overwhelming then say no. I come from a world where this is normal and have never felt anyone left our house in a bad state nor have we ever invaded our hosts privacy. most people are decent good people

Last edited by tichellady on Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

tichellady

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:09 pm

amother Mustard wrote:

Haha they’d never agree to all that… a cleaning lady? It’d be cheaper for them to stay in a motel.

not in my world. and I assume they want to stay in a house not a motel. I have offered this and no one has ever had an issue with it

amother

Ultramarine

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:12 pm

amother Begonia wrote:

Yes indirectly you are by attempting to make those of us who hate the thought of hosting strangers being made to feel guilty.

It is especially inappropriate on a thread in which the OP didn’t want to do this and felt guilty.

I just can’t imagine imposing on strangers for such a large favor. And the point about the cost of cleaning ladies is well taken. I can’t imagine not wanting to have my house scoured thoroughly if strangers and their family stayed in my absence.

For some reason I am thinking o& the parallel thread where Israelis are condemned for being greedy for renting their prime apartments out during the prime holiday travel season.

amother

Tanzanite

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:55 pm

Everyone I know who hosts all their kids at once either goes away to do it or has at least one set of kids who lives local who helps with hosting.

For people who lock up the master and host in their kids' rooms, why are you more comfortable with that? What if your kids aren't comfortable with strangers sleeping in their beds and young kids having access to their things?

salt

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 1:44 am

We do it often. Where we live if you go away for shabbos you give your apartment to neighbours to put up their guests.
I lock whichever rooms I don't want them to use. I also tape up drawers that I don't want opened.

We leave the apartment tidy but not spotless. We usually get it back in the same state that we left it.

We have rarely had a bad experience.

It's actually very good security-wise to have people staying in your house if you are away for a long period of time, as opposed to leaving your house empty.

And it's a great favour to do.

imaima

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 1:53 am

amother Yellow wrote:

I wouldn't. I've lent my not so large house a number of time and would never let anyone use the master bedroom/bathroom. Let them bring cots/air mattress or even sleeping bags and pile in to 2 bedrooms or if you're ok with it, use living/family room space. They are being hosted for yt, rarely does anyone get exactly the comforts of home

I have been a guest on these conditions several times.

Sometimes people close off the whole floor or their private bedrooms, sometimes they let us use all of the house.
In all cases I discussed in advance how many rooms I am getting. I would not appreciate it if I was told I am moving into a house but half the rooms are off limits.
If I am moving in I am counting on an adequate number of beds/rooms for my family.
Whatever OP decides, there should be clear communication and honesty please.

Once I rented an apartment - paid for it - the host said we had 4 bedrooms. When we came, we saw that one of the bedrooms was not livable ( a nook with a window and a drying rack, no bed) so we didn’t have a sleeping arrangement I was hoping to have.

And there was a non-frum tenant on the same floor as one of the bedrooms. The tenant said that she was told, we would only occupy the main floor. We were told, that „the relative might be coming to pick smth up“.
Clearly the host didn’t want to lose out on any money and fooled all of us.

imaima

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 2:00 am

amother Eggplant wrote:

You shouldn’t give reasons to these people. Because then they will try to fight you. Just say no

spikta

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 5:43 am

I feel like the people who do this often are people with a regular cleaning lady and probably a fair amount of space. If I knew there was someone who could come in to my home and make it so that I never knew guests were there, and if I had spaces without much personal/sensitive/breakable stuff in them, then yeah sure, no problem.
But for many people that's not the case. I can barely stay on top of my own kids' messes, and I don't want to imagine a bunch of random children making more mess than I'll ever be able to clean.

amother

Oldlace

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 5:57 am

amother Floralwhite wrote:

"I feel so mean not doing it" is never a valid reason to do a chesed

You cant say yes if you cant say no.

giving away a house is huuuuge. Every drawer corner and shelf will be touched. Every family has their own rules and ways of running a house.

How will you feel if you come back and find things ruined or damaged? Scratches on the wall or ruined floors?

I did this once as a kindness for a neighbor that was hosting relatives. I would never ever do it again. I even told my aunt and uncle no when they begged me to use my house just for a shabbos.

I will do kindness in ways that don't feel like martyrdom and don't leave me with resentment.

Even people who have a more easygoing nature don't like to have their stuff gone through or and/broken. People on vacation are people on vacation.They just don't want to be vigilant about their kids- or themselves- 24/7. I am sure that they do not treat their own homes like they sometimes treat other people's homes. Maybe they have a false assumption that the cleaning lady will take care of it all, but the cleaning lady is not a plumber.