Do you FEEL that you've Changed in Frumkeit?

grin

Sun, Jun 01 2008, 10:31 am

amother wrote:

Outwardly I am the same, but I am much less frum than I used to be in areas like shmiras halashon, tefilla, halacha, emuna. Since I became a mother I find that I just don't have the kochos and time to maintain my spiritual level. Does anyone else feel like that?
It doesn't help that I am married to a man who, although learns a lot of Torah, is much less demanding of himself in those areas. He is not a spiritual person or into spiritual growth. I don't know how to reconcile the fact that I am happily married to the person who I feel is my bashert, yet being married to him is so bad for my ruchnius. I am really unhappy with the person I've become in the last few years. I want to be a better person and a better role model for my children, but I feel like I'm stuck in a rut.

everything you said here is the 1st step of teshuva; being dissatisfied with your own frumkeit. Now all you need to do is to take the next step: make a small hachlata tova in one area and work on keeping it. Then when you feel comfortable with that, try making another small step forward. The important thing is to keep moving in the right direction, just like the rest of us.

yo'ma

Sun, Jun 01 2008, 11:14 am

I wrote that I stayed the same, because I believe I did. I have siblings who are "frummer" than me and they also stayed the same. I'm not a black sheep of the family. My mother grew up much less frum than she is now (daughter of holocaust survivors) and my father worked, but always had a sefer in his hand. I guess we all picked up what we wanted and whatever stuck. Does that make any sense?

Ruchel

Sun, Jun 01 2008, 11:16 am

grin wrote:

Mimisinger wrote:

This poll of course isn't going to be so accurate, because a lot of amothers are bts or gerus

isn't that fact part of the point? besides, anyone who's improved in their frumkeit is a bt.

Yes, if you ever did teshuva of something you're a bt, but that's not what people say when they say "I'm a bt".

amother

Sun, Jun 01 2008, 11:26 am

amother wrote:

I can absolutely relate to that! I used to be so careful with my davening and felt much closer to Hashem due to my constant connection with him. This kept me in a much more spiritual place changing the face of my day.... These days I am so busy just surviving and managing that if I blurt out a quick MOde ani without any thought I consider myself Lucky!
Its very upseting to me but I feel helpless and stuck... At least I light the shabbos candles so I get to speak with Hashem for a few minutes every week.... :-( this is making me sad...

amother

Sun, Jun 01 2008, 11:43 am

amother wrote:

Its very upseting to me but I feel helpless and stuck... At least I light the shabbos candles so I get to speak with Hashem for a few minutes every week.... :-( this is making me sad...

At least you have that. Usually when I'm lighting candles, my kids are hanging on to me or crying and I barely get to say the bracha. This week I tried to say the tefilla and my toddler said "don't daven like Tatty".
How are we supposed to be the spiritual influence of the home if we don't have time to develop that part of ourselves?

ChossidMom

Sun, Jun 01 2008, 12:39 pm

Yeah. I've come to accept that my job right now is to change those diapers, take the kids to the park, help with homework, make the food, put them to sleep etc. It leaves precious little time for "ruchniyus" as we know it! But I also remember that all these things that I'm busy - these ARE my ruchniyus. This is what God means for me to be doing right now. When I'll be older and the kids will be more "self maintaining" I'll have more time to invest in shiurim, davening etc.

grin

Sun, Jun 01 2008, 2:41 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

"hama'ase hu ha'ikar" - IMO changing diapers rates at least as high as a shiur. We've learned that talmud is great only as long as it brings action.

Last edited by grin on Sun, Jun 01 2008, 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

cassandra

Sun, Jun 01 2008, 2:51 pm

I didn't vote because I don't think I fit any of those categories. I'm definitely closest to "stayed the same" but something about it doesn't seem right-- I like to view myself as evolving, a work in progress. But outwardly I'm the same (I had a phase in high school where I wore pants for a week) and I'm similar to my parents, etc....

octopus

Sun, Jun 01 2008, 3:34 pm

cassandra wrote:

I didn't vote either, and like cassandra, I also view myself as evolving. Yes, during my high school days I was very spiritual, davened with great intensity, and felt a "high" when learning torah, but now there is no time for that. I too change diapers, clean, and nurse all day. But I feel no less spiritual. I feel that I have reached greater spiritual highs (when I have the time to think about it) when I don't lose my temper around my spouse or children. I do great works of chessed when I change my kiddies "stinky poos" and prepare nourishing healthy meals. I am a much more spiritual person in that when I wake up in the morning my first thoughts are not for me, but for others (my babies). Each stage in life bring different changes in my practices- as it should. Just because someone outwardly "looks" the same does not mean there frumkeit has not grown.

ChossidMom

Sun, Jun 01 2008, 8:04 pm

happy2BaMommy wrote:

I am a much more spiritual person in that when I wake up in the morning my first thoughts are not for me, but for others (my babies). Each stage in life bring different changes in my practices- as it should. Just because someone outwardly "looks" the same does not mean there frumkeit has not grown.

VERY good point.

Newsie

Mon, Jun 02 2008, 2:57 am

To get back on topic.... Thank you ChossidMom for making this poll. I have been thinking about this a lot. In the past five years (of marriage) my spirituality and focus has changed so much from my single days. In addition to learning a lot, davening a lot, I spent a lot of time thinking about my hashkafa and clarifying my philosophy. And now? Well, things that I thought were important for a Torah observant Jew are not my number priorities. Not because I think they're unimportant, but because I don't have the time and energy for them. I think it is a fault in the education I received that I feel guilty and unfulfilled because I am missing out on learning and philosophical and hashkafic "philosophizing" when I know intellectually that my Avodah is to be taking care of my Bayis. I'm always concerned that by the time I have the opportunity to truly daven with kavana in shul, I'll forget how to really daven. When I have time to go to shiurim or take advantage of some inspirational opportunity I will have lost my desire. I know intellectually that I am doing what I am supposed to be, Mitzad frumkeit and religion, but because of all the beautiful spiritual and intellectual aspects of Yahadus that I was exposed to when I was younger, I don't feel the same fulfillment with dealing with the diapers, laundry, cleaning and cooking. I definitely think it's a fault in the education I received, but I don't think that answer is to create a school such as the one Friedasima describes. I am not sure how to vote!!!!

ora_43

Mon, Jun 02 2008, 6:11 am

In response to the original question—
It’s an interesting question. The more I thought about it the less sure I got, so I didn’t actually take the poll.

In terms of concrete observance it’s hard to say what’s more or less frum. If I used to keep a higher level of kashrut but my behavior around men was inappropriate—am I more or less frum now that I’m more modest but holding by the rabbanut heksher? Is going from chalav Israel to chalav stam (for example) considered a step down if you’re a BT who took on chalav Israel for all of five months because everyone was doing it? As a BT I took on a whole lot of things for a short amount of time, but I don’t feel I significantly changed my real level of observance by dropping some of those things later on.

Like many others here (and it’s nice to hear that there are so many others who understand) I’ve gone from a sem-student “high” of spending hours a day learning, praying, and generally feeling mamash taka gevald about my ruchniyus to spending hours a day working, doing laundry, and chasing a manic toddler around the neighborhood and about 10 minutes remembering to say birkot hashachar.

Still, I feel (although I can’t really explain why) that I’m on a higher level now. I think that to a certain extent what I learned in sem was theory, while what I’m doing now is reality. IMO putting one thing I learned in sem into practice is better than getting really, really inspired by 100 things and doing nothing with them. I also feel that what I do now is more challenging. I have to do a lot of things that I don’t want to do, which IMO is the only real way to grow. I feel (although I have no way of proving it right now) that once I have time again to go to shiurim, davven regularly, etc (whenever that’ll be, if ever) I’ll find myself back where I was (in terms of ruchniyus-feelings) and even beyond.

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2008, 9:59 am

amother wrote:

I could have wrote this post, and feel like crying. I feel exactly the same! I feel like I love my dh, but spiritually he brought me down, and its soooo hard to go back up the ladder without him! its really hard, but after years of marraige, I just decided to start working on myself and not worry about my dh, I think he will respect it and hopefully join me. we, as the wives, can really set the tone in the house....

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2008, 11:18 am

oy, this is a sore point...
I feel spiritually empty..
I think it started after I got a bit influenced by a neighbor of mine, I started watching movies and this really brought me down..
davening is 90 percent non existant, even if I have the time..
the worst thing of all is that I feel I dont want to do anything about it. I know I have to but I feel I cant give up these things which I know are bad for me.
so my frumkeit, like shabbos, tsnius, kashrus etc.. are the same as always but in these things, I really went down..

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2008, 11:55 am

I'm a BT. I grew doing absolutely nothing. I became frum in college. I was exposed to hillel and a whole frum community. I saw the love in frum homes and wanted that for myself. I found comfort in yiddeshkeit and didn't mind all the changes in my life (all the halachos to keep). The usual story: I went to israel, came back to NY to start work, met my husband, got married, had kids...all of a sudden the "spark" is gone. I love my husband and my kids but the magical part of Judaism has faded. I feel more restricted than I used to. I daydream back to my college days and all my adventures, adventures that aren't appropriate in the frum world. It makes me feel stuck in my life. I have the outward appearance of a religious jew, sheitel and all, but most days my heart simply isn't in it. Had I not gotten married when I did, I probably would have reverted back to my old life. Nobody knows any of this, not even my husband. He would be so disappointed to hear it.