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-> Parenting our children
-> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)
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amother
Thistle
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 Sun, Feb 05 2023, 3:10 am
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Please elaborate a bit. I am a provider, set to start working soon. I don't want issues so clarifying the issue will be helpful
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amother
Snowflake
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 7:15 am
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There is a lot of overlap in what agencies do. The 5 arrested did head start and special Ed, plus HSBC. But there is a lot of fraud going on with HSBC and agencies are nervous that once the state starts looking, they will find it so they are cutting back on contracts with unlicensed providers. The unlicensed providers are the ones cutting intake bc they were never licensed to provide the services anyway.
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amother
DarkGreen
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 7:16 am
[quote="WhatFor"]I have no idea whether hcbs programs are being stopped. But to answer your question, based on the article someone posted on another thread, there were a bunch of agencies with which the multiple people arrested were involved. Funding to any of those agencies might be affected. It wasn't even clear to me that the funding was stopping immediately or if those agencies would be looked into more.[/quote
Can you please post a link to the other thread?
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amother
Navy
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 7:28 am
I work for an agency and I’m confused what you are saying. 20 agencies were not shut down, and the 5 people arrested were for special education providers.
There has been a crackdown on HCBS but that has been for some time.
Any legitimate HCBS should be continuing as usual.
Cleaning ladies are not legitimate… you should all be told by your agency what exactly HCBS should be.
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amother
Snowflake
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 7:52 am
The 5 arrested were special Ed providers, they were also hcbs children's waiver providers - as were some of the 20 agencies being investigated now. When they look into a provider, they don't only see the special Ed billings and paperwork. They see billing and paperwork from every program.
As it is, hcbs has been on the radar of the state and insurance companies for a while which is why everyone is cutting back on the free for all that has been the past few years.
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amother
Babyblue
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 8:23 am
| amother Navy wrote: | I work for an agency and I’m confused what you are saying. 20 agencies were not shut down, and the 5 people arrested were for special education providers.
There has been a crackdown on HCBS but that has been for some time.
Any legitimate HCBS should be continuing as usual.
Cleaning ladies are not legitimate… you should all be told by your agency what exactly HCBS should be. |
Why can't people post here what is legitimate?
I actually think we are eligible (I have a child with a ASD diagnosis, but it's all so confusing - I thought this thread was a great idea!
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amother
Moonstone
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 8:39 am
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Most services are legitimate and they are being antisemitic. There are some agencies abusing the system. Btw cleaning lady isnt legal according to hcbs it's not meant for that. Organizer is 100 percent fone as it's teaching skills to mom part of family support.
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amother
Snowflake
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 9:04 am
I would be hesitant to call it antisemitsm. t's not antisemitism when entire schools are signed up for hcbs waiver, many without parents even knowing it and where most kids aren't really eligible.
If that is antisemitism, we are only giving them fuel for the fire and hurting those children and families who really need the program.
The program is designed and meant for children with serious emotional mental health conditions or chronic medical conditions. It would be so sad and such a shame if they and their families are the ones who lose out.
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amother
Ivory
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 9:12 am
| amother Moonstone wrote: | | Most services are legitimate and they are being antisemitic. There are some agencies abusing the system. Btw cleaning lady isnt legal according to hcbs it's not meant for that. Organizer is 100 percent fone as it's teaching skills to mom part of family support. |
How do people decide what is legit or not? If an agency offers services to benefit kid and family why are you labeling some legit and some not? Like another poster mentioned this thread was intended to list services and providers so mother's can be aware of what's out there and all can benefit. The assumption on this thread was that if someone is signed up for these services they need it and are not abusing the system.
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amother
IndianRed
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 9:15 am
| amother Snowflake wrote: | I would be hesitant to call it antisemitsm. t's not antisemitism when entire schools are signed up for hcbs waiver, many without parents even knowing it and where most kids aren't really eligible.
If that is antisemitism, we are only giving them fuel for the fire and hurting those children and families who really need the program.
The program is designed and meant for children with serious emotional mental health conditions or chronic medical conditions. It would be so sad and such a shame if they and their families are the ones who lose out. |
Meanwhile I'm trying to sign up my kids with emotional issues which makes daily existence draining and exhausting and I can't get the school to even sign off on it.
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amother
Violet
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 9:15 am
| amother Electricblue wrote: | Some agencies are closing down.
Some agencies put new enrollments on hold.
Can anybody explain what this has to do with the 5 people arrested? Weren’t they providing education services? Not hcbs. |
I have the same question. I know that 2 of the people arrested were providing daycare/HeadStart services. I don't know about the other 3. Not sure what headstart or daycare voucher fraud has to do with hcbs??
But I did hear that the govt. is starting a committee who's job is to look into daycare and special Ed agencies in our community- specifically Jewish owned/run agencies. That's why agencies are getting nervous.
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amother
Snowflake
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 9:42 am
| amother Violet wrote: | I have the same question. I know that 2 of the people arrested were providing daycare/HeadStart services. I don't know about the other 3. Not sure what headstart or daycare voucher fraud has to do with hcbs??
But I did hear that the govt. is starting a committee who's job is to look into daycare and special Ed agencies in our community- specifically Jewish owned/run agencies. That's why agencies are getting nervous. |
They were also providing hcbs services.
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amother
Snowflake
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 9:45 am
| amother IndianRed wrote: | | Meanwhile I'm trying to sign up my kids with emotional issues which makes daily existence draining and exhausting and I can't get the school to even sign off on it. |
You should be able to sign up without your school signing off. These services aren't supposed to be provided in school. Maybe contact a provider directly.
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amother
Dill
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 10:15 am
I really have no idea what specifically they did although I read the indictment and whether the fraud was specific to HCBS.
Based on the indictment the five men indicted owned businesses that billed for children enrolled in Day Care After Care who weren't actually enrolled.
Because these men owned or were involved with specific companies, the contracts with these companies from the Board of Education were stopped. In other words, the BOE would not enter into contracts with the companies for any purpose at this point. It seems very logical that if the owners of a company are indicted for fraud, the government stops doing business with those companies while it investigates.
I personally find it hard to defend this kind of fraud. People often act as if it is a victimless crime if one defrauds the government or that the money is being stolen by others or some other excuse to justify it. However the reality is that there is a finite pot of money in any municipal budget. Unlike the Federal government, states and cities can't just increase the debt ceiling.
In the upcoming budget the kindergarten funding for 3 year olds was eliminated because it cost about over $350 million dollars. I am not that familiar with New York City budget but I am just pointing out that actual programs that are helpful to people can't get funded or have insufficient funding when money is stolen or fraudulently used.
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amother
Seashell
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 10:24 am
| amother Snowflake wrote: | I would be hesitant to call it antisemitsm. t's not antisemitism when entire schools are signed up for hcbs waiver, many without parents even knowing it and where most kids aren't really eligible.
If that is antisemitism, we are only giving them fuel for the fire and hurting those children and families who really need the program.
The program is designed and meant for children with serious emotional mental health conditions or chronic medical conditions. It would be so sad and such a shame if they and their families are the ones who lose out. | how do I know if my kids school in BP signed my kid up for something?
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amother
DarkCyan
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 11:23 am
| amother Dill wrote: | I really have no idea what specifically they did although I read the indictment and whether the fraud was specific to HCBS.
Based on the indictment the five men indicted owned businesses that billed for children enrolled in Day Care After Care who weren't actually enrolled.
Because these men owned or were involved with specific companies, the contracts with these companies from the Board of Education were stopped. In other words, the BOE would not enter into contracts with the companies for any purpose at this point. It seems very logical that if the owners of a company are indicted for fraud, the government stops doing business with those companies while it investigates.
I personally find it hard to defend this kind of fraud. People often act as if it is a victimless crime if one defrauds the government or that the money is being stolen by others or some other excuse to justify it. However the reality is that there is a finite pot of money in any municipal budget. Unlike the Federal government, states and cities can't just increase the debt ceiling.
In the upcoming budget the kindergarten funding for 3 year olds was eliminated because it cost about over $350 million dollars. I am not that familiar with New York City budget but I am just pointing out that actual programs that are helpful to people can't get funded or have insufficient funding when money is stolen or fraudulently used. |
First, no one has been convicted of a crime, its just an indictment and all those charged are innocent until proven guilty.
Second, NY is cutting services for American citizens to accommodate illegal aliens. So illegal aliens are now getting billions of our tax dollars for expensive hotel rooms, food, medical care, public school esl classes, and other services. NY cant afford to pay for all that so they have to cut services elsewhere. And guess who suffers? Our kids who need these services desperately. And this is despite the fact that we are American citizens who pay taxes (income tax, housing tax, etc). Why should our taxes go to foreigners while our kids get nothing?
Finally, in regards to services for the special needs population, NY was sued because of what happened at Willowbrook. NY guaranteed services for people with disabilities as per the settlement agreement which is also the reason why NY is so generous with this population (if you go to any other state, including other blue states, you wont get most of these services so its unique to NY because of Willowbrook). This has since been codified in law so NY is required by their own agreement and laws to provide these resources to people with disabilities. Taking it away from kids is a violation of these laws and agreements. Taking it away specifically from Jewish kids is discrimination as well. So Jewish kids with disabilities who are not going to get these services have the right to sue for discrimination as well as violation of the settlement agreement and laws that NY has specifically for people with disabilities.
NY should provide to citizens first, if there is no money for American citizens to get these services then what right do they have to provide any services to foreigners who are not even in America legally? Now I am not sure if these services include Shabatons or chol hamoed trips or cleaning ladies or karate classes (nor do I understand how it gets funded since it seems to be on top of the therapy services that these kids need) but def does include therapies like speech, pt, ot, etc. This is where anyone who is harmed by the removal of services should speak to a lawyer who understands these laws and can help get the services back.
ETA: You can read about the Willowbrook lawsuit here:
https://disabilityjustice.org/.....rook/
https://www.leagle.com/decisio.....21980
https://law.justia.com/cases/f.....5985/
https://casetext.com/case/ny-s.....rey-2
https://openjurist.org/596/f2d.....carey
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amother
Snowflake
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 11:43 am
| amother DarkCyan wrote: | First, no one has been convicted of a crime, its just an indictment and all those charged are innocent until proven guilty.
Second, NY is cutting services for American citizens to accommodate illegal aliens. So illegal aliens are now getting billions of our tax dollars for expensive hotel rooms, food, medical care, public school esl classes, and other services. NY cant afford to pay for all that so they have to cut services elsewhere. And guess who suffers? Our kids who need these services desperately. And this is despite the fact that we are American citizens who pay taxes (income tax, housing tax, etc). Why should our taxes go to foreigners while our kids get nothing?
Finally, in regards to services for the special needs population, NY was sued because of what happened at Willowbrook. NY guaranteed services for people with disabilities as per the settlement agreement which is also the reason why NY is so generous with this population (if you go to any other state, including other blue states, you wont get most of these services so its unique to NY because of Willowbrook). This has since been codified in law so NY is required by their own agreement and laws to provide these resources to people with disabilities. Taking it away from kids is a violation of these laws and agreements. Taking it away specifically from Jewish kids is discrimination as well. So Jewish kids with disabilities who are not going to get these services have the right to sue for discrimination as well as violation of the settlement agreement and laws that NY has specifically for people with disabilities.
NY should provide to citizens first, if there is no money for American citizens to get these services then what right do they have to provide any services to foreigners who are not even in America legally? Now I am not sure if these services include Shabatons or chol hamoed trips or cleaning ladies or karate classes (nor do I understand how it gets funded since it seems to be on top of the therapy services that these kids need) but def does include therapies like speech, pt, ot, etc. This is where anyone who is harmed by the removal of services should speak to a lawyer who understands these laws and can help get the services back.
ETA: You can read about the Willowbrook lawsuit here-- https://disabilityjustice.org/.....rook/
https://law.justia.com/cases/f.....5985/
https://casetext.com/case/ny-s.....rey-2
https://openjurist.org/596/f2d.....carey |
All very well and good, but Willowbrook is related to OPWDD services. HCBS is not for developmental disabilities. It is a mental health program.
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amother
Dill
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 11:45 am
| amother DarkCyan wrote: | First, no one has been convicted of a crime, its just an indictment and all those charged are innocent until proven guilty.
Second, NY is cutting services for American citizens to accommodate illegal aliens. So illegal aliens are now getting billions of our tax dollars for expensive hotel rooms, food, medical care, public school esl classes, and other services. NY cant afford to pay for all that so they have to cut services elsewhere. And guess who suffers? Our kids who need these services desperately. And this is despite the fact that we are American citizens who pay taxes (income tax, housing tax, etc). Why should our taxes go to foreigners while our kids get nothing?
Finally, in regards to services for the special needs population, NY was sued because of what happened at Willowbrook. NY guaranteed services for people with disabilities as per the settlement agreement which is also the reason why NY is so generous with this population (if you go to any other state, including other blue states, you wont get most of these services so its unique to NY because of Willowbrook). This has since been codified in law so NY is required by their own agreement and laws to provide these resources to people with disabilities. Taking it away from kids is a violation of these laws and agreements. Taking it away specifically from Jewish kids is discrimination as well. So Jewish kids with disabilities who are not going to get these services have the right to sue for discrimination as well as violation of the settlement agreement and laws that NY has specifically for people with disabilities.
NY should provide to citizens first, if there is no money for American citizens to get these services then what right do they have to provide any services to foreigners who are not even in America legally? Now I am not sure if these services include Shabatons or chol hamoed trips or cleaning ladies or karate classes (nor do I understand how it gets funded since it seems to be on top of the therapy services that these kids need) but def does include therapies like speech, pt, ot, etc. This is where anyone who is harmed by the removal of services should speak to a lawyer who understands these laws and can help get the services back.
ETA: You can read about the Willowbrook lawsuit here-- https://disabilityjustice.org/.....rook/
https://law.justia.com/cases/f.....5985/
https://casetext.com/case/ny-s.....rey-2
https://openjurist.org/596/f2d.....carey |
And the inevitable defense by bringing up undocumented aliens as if that is a justification for any illegal fraud. 😂😂
And that these men have a presumption of innocence. Yes but the government certainly doesn’t have to continue to give them money to continue to fund the fraudulent activities. All that has happened is that contracts will go to other companies which aren’t owned by the indicted imdivuals.
Not to mention that the SDNY has over a 90% conviction rate because they do not bring actions thst they haven’t investigated and have substantial proof of. With white collar financial crime there are always paper trails. Most people in the SDNY take a plea bargain rather than be convicted and serve a longer term.
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amother
DarkCyan
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 12:04 pm
| amother Snowflake wrote: | | All very well and good, but Willowbrook is related to OPWDD services. HCBS is not for developmental disabilities. It is a mental health program. |
Not according to their website-- "Home and community based services (HCBS) provide opportunities for Medicaid beneficiaries to receive services in their own home or community rather than institutions or other isolated settings. These programs serve a variety of targeted populations groups, such as people with intellectual or developmental disabilities, physical disabilities, and/or mental illnesses."
https://www.medicaid.gov/medic......html
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amother
DarkCyan
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Sun, Feb 05 2023, 12:11 pm
| amother Dill wrote: | And the inevitable defense by bringing up undocumented aliens as if that is a justification for any illegal fraud. 😂😂
And that these men have a presumption of innocence. Yes but the government certainly doesn’t have to continue to give them money to continue to fund the fraudulent activities. All that has happened is that contracts will go to other companies which aren’t owned by the indicted imdivuals.
Not to mention that the SDNY has over a 90% conviction rate because they do not bring actions thst they haven’t investigated and have substantial proof of. With white collar financial crime there are always paper trails. Most people in the SDNY take a plea bargain rather than be convicted and serve a longer term. |
No one said that fraud was acceptable, not sure why you would make a claim like that. These men who were indicted were not convicted yet and are innocent until proven guilty. Sad that you already convicted them even though you never saw any of the evidence (and especially since the charges claim that they had "secret" things going on but didnt show how the govt knew of these "secrets" or what evidence they have that these "secret" arrangements were illegal).
And in regards to illegal aliens, I was responding to a poster who said that NY was cutting services to 3 year old kids getting kindergarten for free (and added that cutting services to people with disabilities goes against codified laws). Why should tax paying American citizens get their services cut or removed altogether just to accommodate illegal aliens? And yes, they are in the country illegally since refugees have documents so we are not discussing actual refugees who are entitled to get services for being refugees. We are discussing illegal aliens who refuse to follow American laws, never paid any taxes that American citizens are paying, yet still demand free expensive hotel rooms, money for food and medical care, money for their kids to go to school and get all kinds of services that many American citizens cant get, etc. Our taxes shouldnt go to these illegal aliens if our own kids are suffering and cant get services that we pay for with our tax dollars.
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