Teen dd, Im not your slave!

amother

DarkGray

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 8:55 pm

This wasn't brought up yet (I think) and I feel it is important to get more context. When I was a teen, as the oldest girl, I had a nice amount of responsibilities. Nothing crazy or inappropriate. And I vaguely remember kvetching to my mother about feeling like a slave of some variety. But what was really going was that I felt the division of labor was very unfair. For various reasons. (My father was completely uninvolved in any housework, my brothers weren't required to do the same things I was being asked, I only had sisters much, much younger than me so they weren't doing much as toddlers). If I could of have had an honest and practical conversation with my mother (or father) about it, it would have helped the situation immensely. And we could have problem solved together.

I have no idea how things are set up in your home or if this is remotely applicable but I do think this is something to consider.

werty

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 8:56 pm

Thank you best bubby.. clearly I'm not making myself understood to most people over here...
A final effort : Nowhere did I ever say that parents and children are equally responsible to each other, or that parents could or should rely on kids for their own needs, or that parents can't manage without their help. I also fully agree that if a child speaks out of chutzpah or pain , those issues are separate ones and need to be addressed with empathy and education on how to express needs, desires or problems politely.
I just said that the concepts of giving and responsibility can be taught by reflecting it back on them, showing them that life is a two way street.

If this sounds narcissistic, then I give up. We'll agree to disagree...

werty

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 8:59 pm

amother DarkGray wrote:

I completely agree with you that this is not a good situation at all. Your mother should have been way more in tune with how you felt, and it sounds like you were doing way too much. Children should contribute, but the burden and vast bulk of responsibility should be totally on the parents

amother

Cinnamon

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 8:59 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Saying it is normal for teens to talk like that
To parents is over indulgent parenting.

Until recently virtually nobody talked to parents like that.

Now it is considered normal and parents are supposed to shut up and take it.

Yes, it is normal for teens to talk like that in the heat of the moment. We all say things we shouldn't be saying in the heat of the moment. We're humans.
And if kids didn't talk like that to their parents back in the day, it was most probably because they were scared stiff because they'd be severely beaten and punished. That's not ok parenting either.
Most of the time, teens say outrageous things because they don't feel understood.

amother

Cinnamon

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 9:02 pm

werty wrote:

But you mentioned getting kids to help out and do what you want them to be doing, by threatening them, and that's not ok. You also said that parents are entitled to their kids help. This isn't ok thinking either. You also said that if kids don't want to help out with what parents want them to help out, parents shouldn't do anything for the kids besides survival. Not ok either.

behappy2

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 9:12 pm

The question is what were her responsibility till now? This is very few responsibilities for a kid her age. Basically, have you raised her to expect that she will get everything without giving anything? You may have a great relationship but also one where you subtly taught her to take advantage of you.

I have to say that I have this on some level with my kids and working hard on changing it. It can be done. Slowly.

I would ignore the comment about her being your slave. That's just to get your attention. I would be consistent about her having responsibilities. If she's neurotypical without any big challenges and she is capable you owe it to her to have her learn to be helpful.

Good luck!

werty

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 9:14 pm

Cinnamon you need to reread because I think you are really misquoting there. For example, I actually said entitlement is wrong on both ends.

But I'm also curious , do you believe that parents and educators should never , ever threaten anything? That would mean that there should never ever be consequences for anything?

amother

Cinnamon

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 9:17 pm

werty wrote:

I don't think threatening is ever ok. Giving a consequence appropriate to the action, doesn't mean threatening. It's 2 different things.
I read the thread. You said that if parents are not entitled to their kids help, then kids are not entitled to anything from parents. That's a very wrong view.

BrisketBoss

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 9:22 pm

werty wrote:

I believe in natural consequences of course, which the parents and educators are not involved in, and sometimes in logical consequences, which magically turn into punishments when you use them as threats.

No. I don't think kids need to be threatened. If that's what comes to you in an urgent situation, ok, but don't keep doing it systemically.

Chayalle

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 9:32 pm

werty wrote:

Ok I can honestly say I'm shocked by the popular opinion.
The entitlement of youth today shouldnt surprise anyone if this is the prevalent attitude...
Ftr, practically my kids hardly help. And reminding kids that life is about give and take isn't scaring or threatening anyone. If you knew me you'd never accuse me of that..
But a child telling her parents I'm not your slave , I find deeply disturbing. But I guess I'm just totally out of date.

Me too, honestly. Which is why I question what's going on beneath it, and I doubt a strong parental reaction to the child (not taking care of their needs for a few days, etc..) is going to have any positive affect (and tells more negative about the parent than the child, and hints strongly at underlying issues in the parent-child relationship). If anything, strong unconditional commitment and love from the parent to the child is needed to heal the rift that is there.

Chayalle

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 9:33 pm

amother Cinnamon wrote:

I don't know that that's necessarily true either. Or BH I'm blessed with wonderful teens and a good relationship with them. I certainly hope my teen would feel safe to tell me if a particular task was so abhorrent to her, using gentler and milder language than not being my slave....

amother

DarkGray

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 9:39 pm

werty wrote:

No I wasn't doing way too much. But I wasn't being listened to or understood. I had no problem with the actual chores. I just didn't feel it was fair the way the system in my parents home was set up.

Chayalle

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 9:48 pm

amother DarkGray wrote:

No I wasn't doing way too much. But I wasn't being listened to or understood. I had no problem with the actual chores. I just didn't feel it was fair the way the system in my parents home was set up.

This exactly. Something is going on beneath the surface, when a child says something like this.

#BestBubby

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 10:19 pm

werty wrote:

Yes, the latest modern parenting says

parents should never punish

And never give rewards either.

People don't realize that they want parents to

Have zero influence on their kids

So that government school Indoctrination
should be the only influence on children.

People worship "experts" like avodah Zara

And they are destroying the children.

Last edited by #BestBubby on Mon, Feb 27 2023, 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

#BestBubby

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 10:21 pm

Chayalle wrote:

This exactly. Something is going on beneath the surface, when a child says something like this.

It's Called selfish lazy narcissism.

Per OP, her daughter barely does anything.

And her DD thinks it is chutzpah of mother

To ask her to help even minimally.

amother

Buttercup

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 10:27 pm

Chayalle wrote:

This exactly. Something is going on beneath the surface, when a child says something like this.

I don't know, sometimes my kids will be upset and try to think of the strongest way of expressing themselves. I could go all Freudian and analyze it, but usually it's just a way of saying "I'm upset."

If they say it repeatedly or in calm moments I'd be more concerned that there is more to it, but just like I don't fall apart when they say "I hate you" I also don't know that I need to start second-guessing my parenting methods if an angry teen says "I'm not your slave."

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 10:30 pm

Teens are not a finished product. Let them be immature and chutzpadik and selfish and lazy. Give them space to grow. Why is that so scary for some people? Why is it so important that a child or teen be perfectly raised and in control?
Life is a growing experience. Children and teens are only just starting out. What do you think you're doing to their growth by controlling them, punishing them, bring shocked by outbursts?

#BestBubby

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 10:32 pm

Letting children talk disrespectfully because they are upset is raising abusers.

What would you say about a husband who screamed at wife and kids because he had a hard day at the office?

That abusive husband was allowed to scream at his parents whenever he was "upset".

BrisketBoss

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 10:33 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Eh, more likely the opposite. Adults often yell in part because they didn't feel heard as children and now they are fighting to be heard.

#BestBubby

Mon, Feb 27 2023, 10:34 pm

8x wrote:

Teens are not a finished product. Let them be immature and chutzpadik and selfish and lazy.

Then they will be immature, abusive, selfish lazy adults.

And probably get divorced.

If you don't teach your children to be a mentch,

You are destroying their lives.