Spoiled Americans | Imamother

amother

Chocolate

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 7:07 am

I’m Israeli living in America.
You cannot compare the two countries. I grew up in a two br apartment with one bathroom that the door wouldn’t close all the way. I most definitely became a lot more spoiled in my 5 br 3 full bathrooms house. My kitchen still has only one sink but overall I have a lot more than any standard Israeli apartment. I dont think it’s something to be ashamed of. Yes I like and need my comfort. Why is that an issue?

America back in the day was called the golden medina for a reason. Even with the medical bills and tuition, the standard in the frum community in the tristate is very high. Yes Americans are a lot more spoiled than Israelis in many ways. It’s nothing bad and between u and me, most Israelies are jealous.

amother

Seafoam

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 7:32 am

Raisin wrote:

lol I guess you didn't live in Brooklyn.

A/C depends if you live in a hot climate. Not so necessary in some parts of Europe.

Most of those things are normal for affluent suburbs. Pretty common in Ranaana, Sydney, Joburg or parts of London I bet.

I did not. But even Brooklyn is more spacious than London.

It’s very hot here right now. And it was very hot here last year and the summer before that and the summer before that…. Sorry AC is a need in the UK nowadays.

No, I live in London. These things are definitely a bonusl. Who here has a walk-in closet?? Only the very very wealthy. Contrast in America even in Brooklyn you will get a normal closet even if you are middle class or lower.

amother

Seafoam

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 7:33 am

amother Begonia wrote:

This is true.
Even among the wealthy in London, hardly any have huge houses and grounds like is the norm in the frum communites in the US. A pool? Unheard of. There's no space for that.

(Yes I know in NY many live in tiny apartments, but no one here has houses the size that people have in Lakewood etc. Just doesn't exist. Aside from the few streets of mansions, but those are for the SUPER wealthy.)

I wasn’t even talking about pools, I’m talking about basic closets!

amother

Begonia

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 8:15 am

amother Seafoam wrote:

I wasn’t even talking about pools, I’m talking about basic closets!

Sorry, I guess walk in closets aren't even on my radar. It's just not a thing in the UK, I wouldn't think to miss it!!

En-suite bathrooms also aren't the standard in the UK. Of course some people have, but it's not the norm like it is in the US. You're lucky if there's one bathroom per floor!

(And then I read on here about people who don't want to visit their in-laws unless they get their own bathroom, and I'm like 'Who has such a thing?'. We feel lucky if there's enough space by our parents to put us up at all.)

amother

Pink

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 8:18 am

I don't know if I'd call it spoiled but the "normal" is very high in many places. I live in Yerushalayim and have many seminary girls from all over coming in. Their "normal" is just way beyond my kids comprehension. Even silly examples like we buy pizza once in the summer and they see it as quite normal to go once a week or even just for one triangle mid-day for a snack. Or buying ice-coffee on a regular basis. The number of outfits that they think is normal. Turning their noses up at 4 children sharing a room. Being surprised at what we consider a treat.
They're really nice girls and I don't think they are spoiled but they definitely have higher standards of gashmiyus.

amother

Carnation

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 8:22 am

amother Seafoam wrote:

Closets in Brooklyn are not a given. I never had a closet living in Brooklyn. Most of the buildings are older and unless they've been renovated you won't find closets.

As far as spoiled, the word spoiled means that a person's character has been affected by being overindulged. I don't think this is a fair statement. Many of us are certainly blessed with luxuries and abundance, and are often not aware of the level of luxury we enjoy. Is that a character flaw? Perhaps, but I don't think it's to is to decide or judge. Is it something to think about and be aware of? Absolutely!

amf

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 8:24 am

amother Seafoam wrote:

You can't compare the 2 cities, one was built when bathrooms were a street curb and highways were not even a figment of the imagination, and one was built when the concept of civil engineering was already somewhat of a thing. Of course it was built differently. Also, space in London was at much more of a premium than space in brooklyn, and houses were built accordingly.

America also has vast swathes of available land. (At many points, people could get acres and acres for free, with just a commitment to work them or cultivate them.) This has changed the way people across the country view homes. The rich frequently had sprawling homes in yehupitzville.

amother

Moonstone

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 8:39 am

Honestly, it's all relative
When I read here, it seems that the majority of British Imamothers, if they work, work in kids schools, offering them the luxury of their kids schedules.
It seems like European families go on vacations regularly - both smaller sea vacations and out of the country.

South American and South African families have a tremendous amount of household help, due to the availability.

Israeli Imas pay significantly less for education and healthcare.
Many countries have basic food price caps and maternity leave and childcare assistance or child payments that leave Americans jealous.

I think the fact that it's standard for a European family to go on a 2 week vacation every year makes them spoiled.

See, it's just what you're used to.

amother

Seashell

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 8:44 am

amother Carnation wrote:

This. When we lived in Brooklyn, we had 1 closet. 1! In the hallway. Old Brooklyn apartment buildings are built with 1 closet for the entire apartment.

amother

Seashell

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 8:46 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

Right. Every country has their advantages and disadvantages. This doesn't mean that a country that has an advantage that your country doesn't have, makes the people living there spoiled. Because YOU have plenty advantages they don't have. I'd take affordable Healthcare and maternity leave anytime over a dishwasher....... (not that I have a dishwasher....... )

amother

Bluebonnet

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 8:50 am

My American sister in law only eats chicken cutlets, no chicken on the bone.

Who's ever heard of such a thing outside of the tri state?

There was even a thread about this not long ago and many people said the same.

I worked with British girls and they said they only eat chicken (besides for ground) on Shabbos.

Americans are wonderful but they are more spoiled and used to abundance bh.

I know of some British girls who got married with one wig (gasp), no flowers, no benchers, videographers, sheva brochos only in people's houses and all those extras which I think in Tri state is considered the norm.

amother

Nasturtium

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 8:52 am

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

I'm American and I think the last time I had chicken cutlets was on Yom Tov. They're very expensive where I live.

amother

Green

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 8:53 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

I don't think it's so much the perks that you're referring to that makes Americans be spoiled - it's the degree of those perks and what level they're taken to.

Both Americans and Europeans take vacations, each in their own way. But in general American vacations are highly luxurious as opposed to a small family vacation.

Same goes for housing. There are wealthy and poor on both sides of the ocean. Both American wealthy housing far outstrips the European. Same goes for the poor. What we consider poor living conditions are actually normal living conditions for other countries.

Same goes for kids activities. Kids all over go to camp and get stuff. But what we offer to our kids in camp borders on ridiculous, and the stuff the kids 'need' is far beyond any actual need.

Same goes for food. Everyone makes simchas B"H, and there are all kinds of levels of simchas. But the amount and type of food in American simchas are way beyond what's done elsewhere.

Etc.

So I believe OP's point is not so much about a particular action. It's how we Americans go about particular actions.

amother

Amaryllis

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 8:55 am

Yes I am a spoiled American.
We live in a two bedroom apartment. No dishwasher or self cleaning oven. Bh. We have one bathroom.
Our head would turn at the thought of 4 kids in a room bc we have 7 in there bh.
Pizza is a treat not a daily accurate. No We do not have a closet in all rooms.
Many of my neighbors may be living slightly better in a 3 bedroom rental or a purchased condo for starting 1.2 million. Most of us are shopping on sale both food and clothing.
Food pantry are delivering all over town.
Golden? Appellant? Spoiled?

amother

Bluebonnet

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 8:59 am

amother Nasturtium wrote:

I'm American and I think the last time I had chicken cutlets was on Yom Tov. They're very expensive where I live.

Again, what you are doing doesn't change anything.

OF COURSE not every American is spoilt.

But there is a general "normal" which varies in every country.

Also, prices soared everywhere recently and I am talking about pre the crazy inflation era.

amother

Crimson

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 9:02 am

amother Green wrote:

I disagree. I read about luxurious vacations here. In reality, I don't know anyone irl who goes on them. The typical vacation for frum families in my circles is driving to a location in another state, staying in a regular hotel while bringing your own food, doing local attractions and maybe having outdoor BBQs on the disposable grill you buy as you travel in the local stores, then driving back. These vacations are 1 week or less. They don't usually include shabbos unless you have family somewhere on the drive back where you can stay.
Listen, I get why posters think all frum Americans are going to these all inclusive hotel getaways with kosher food etc. If all I knew about the lifestyle was what I read online and saw in ads in the frum magazines, I'd think that, too. But if you live here, you know it's just not that way across the board, whether it’s vacations in the summer or going to Florida during yeshiva week, or spending the summer in a bungalow colony etc.

amother

Moonstone

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 9:03 am

amother Green wrote:

Not all Americans go on vacations the way that "all" Europeans go on vacations.
That's my point.
We don't go on vacations. We can't afford to all take off at the same time (I have off Yom Tov, nothing else).
So summer the kids go to camp and then we muddle through.
Our European counterparts ALL go on a 2-3 week vacation every year.

I have 2 hours a week of cleaning help. My South African or South American counterpart has 2 full-time workers.

You have to compare like with like.
Yes, there are Americans going on luxurious vacations. Europeans also.
But the average European has luxuries (like child payments, vacations, etc) that the average American thinks are luxuries.