Tefillos at the Rebbe's ohel

PinkFridge

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 5:05 pm

ruby slippers wrote:

I was not asking the question specifically towards Chassidus.
My question is genuine.
Thanks for the Kalev reminder of last week!
But how do you daven to a gadol ...see the words davening TO when I should be davening to Hashem....How do I do it appropriately?

YOU DON'T DAVEN TO A GADOL!
It's a holy place for our tefillos to rise from. Thinking of the gadlus of the gadol might inspire our davening. And I believe we can ask the neshama to intercede. But the gadol is NOT the address of our tefillos.

PinkFridge

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 5:07 pm

werty wrote:

You're welcome!

I'm sorry , and I hope I wasn't harsh in my first post. I've just seen so many people say ridiculous, senseless things about Chabad on here, and don't seem particularly open to hearing that they might be mistaken. So I was wary.

The interesting thing is that most anti-chabad talk today is related to this sort of thing - davening at kever, sending kvitelech to the kever, etc, but hisnagdus against Chabad has actually been around since the very first lubavitcher Rebbe, yes, when he was alive Wink

The themes just change with the seasons, and somehow the old accusations are forgotten once they are proved baseless.

Historically, the reason Chabad has born the main brunt of anti chassidic animosity is that it was one of the largest, and almost only, chassidus based in Russia, in close proximity to those who opposed chassidus . The Lubavitcher Rebbeim thus became the face of chassidim in general and much of the hisnagdus was aimed at them.

For example, the Tanya , written by the first Lubavitcher Rebbe was considered not acceptable by the misnagdish leaders of the time, and there was terrible animosity , to the degree that people falsely reported on him to the Russian authorities and he was actually imprisoned. Nowadays, many many Litvish leaders actually learn and teach Tanya.
When the latest Lubavitcher Rebbe started outreach to be mekarev unaffiliated Jews, he was roundly criticised by misnagdish leaders , but now those communities themselves also do outreach.
Etc.
So they found some other obscure thing to criticise now... I'm waiting to see misnagdim davening at Rav Chaim Kanievskys kever. I'm guessing Lubavitchers will be accused of some other crime by then.

I've heard a Litvish talmid chochom quote the Shulchan Aruch HaRav with the highest regard.

PinkFridge

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 5:08 pm

wtvr wrote:

[/b]The yahrzeit of a tzaddik is a special time for giving tzedakah. We urge you to give to your charity of choice.

If you prefer to donate to Colel Chabad, the Rebbe’s personal charity, you can do so here:[b]

You know, I just said something about why the yahrtzeit of all days. It just occurred to me that the yahrtzeit of someone who did so much for so many, who left no living descendants, is a very appropriate day to give tzedaka in his memory.

ruby slippers

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 5:12 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

You are 100% correct... Every picture we have seen of the Rebbe he is smiling and there is joy. What level he and his wife obm must have been on to lead so many and never looking sad.

Thisisnotmyreal

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 5:47 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Thanks for demystifying the process. Re your first paragraph, you say today's theme. Is there some kind of calendar? What's tomorrow's? What was yesterday's?

Gimmel Tammuz is the day the Sun stopped. That's changing nature and as Torah is eternal the message of Gimmel Tammuz never changes.

In general the Rebbe lives with the times and the beginning of every sicha says what thay day's theme is. It also becomes a weekly thing because shabbos is connected to the three days before and the three days after.

The theme from Gimmel Tammuz until Yud Gimmel Tammuz is Geula and we hasten it's completion by selfless devotion to the Eibershter.

PinkFridge

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 5:49 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

Thanks.

werty

Fri, Jun 23 2023, 3:02 am

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

Meh I don't think this will last much longer. We're going to have to learn to get along at some point.

Amein... but I wonder if only Moshiach's coming will stop the sinas chinam.

After the holocaust there was a tremendous feeling of achdus between all frum yidden and the chassidic-misnagdish dispute was for the most part a thing of the past.
But then a certain leader of misnagdim came out saying terrible, rabble-rousing things against the Lubavitcher Rebbe and his outreach efforts, effectively restarting the division among Yidden. This gave the Rebbe tremendous agmas nefesh, presumably because although no Litvish Gadol has spoken that way since (instead, they actually emulated Chabad's outreach initiatives), and many are very respectful of Chabad, the damage has been done.
Just read imamother.

Juliettholiday

Fri, Jun 23 2023, 9:50 am

[quote="werty"]Amein... but I wonder if only Moshiach's coming will stop the sinas chinam.

Maybe the damage is both ways? Bc that 'rabble rousing' etc was a big tzadik and Talmud chacham who helped many ppl. This machlokes is similar to the vilna goan and the bal shem tov..
And instead of looking down at another yid, especially a massive gadol,
"where giants fight we take a step back."
We bring moshiach by ending sinas chinam. All the rebbes involved in this 'machlokes' did not have sinas chinom, obviously. For whatever reason they saw their battle as lishmah. But let's be real here, some talmidim/chassidim don't see the leshmah aspect and get involved. And this was including me, until I realized I'm part of the problem. There is no divide... everything that separates us is superficial, especially nowadays and with our youth. Let's not pass down negative feelings abt other groups of yidden.

ruby slippers

Fri, Jun 23 2023, 9:59 am

[quote="Juliettholiday"]

werty wrote:

Amein... but I wonder if only Moshiach's coming will stop the sinas chinam.

Maybe the damage is both ways? Bc that 'rabble rousing' etc was a big tzadik and Talmud chacham who helped many ppl. This machlokes is similar to the vilna goan and the bal shem tov..
And instead of looking down at another yid, especially a massive gadol,
"where giants fight we take a step back."
We bring moshiach by ending sinas chinam. All the rebbes involved in this 'machlokes' did not have sinas chinom, obviously. For whatever reason they saw their battle as lishmah. But let's be real here, some talmidim/chassidim don't see the leshmah aspect and get involved. And this was including me, until I realized I'm part of the problem. There is no divide... everything that separates us is superficial, especially nowadays and with our youth. Let's not pass down negative feelings abt other groups of yidden.

Amen- beautifully said!

zaq

Fri, Jun 23 2023, 10:20 am

werty wrote:

You don't daven to the Gadel, chas veshalom.
You ask the gadol to intercede on your behalf , to daven for you, to bless you. A tzadik has koach to arouse Hashems rachmones that regular people do not have.

You can also daven ( to Hashem ) at the gadols kever, which is appropriate as it is a place of kedusha.

How is the bolded not davening to the gadol if you're addressing him and asking him to do something for you? Say, rather, that you ask the KBH to help you in the gadol's merit.

zaq

Fri, Jun 23 2023, 10:26 am

holylandgirl wrote:

It's in the yud gimmel ikarim- we only daven to Hashem and noone else. So yes, davening to any Tzaddik is 100% not ok.
There are two ways of davening at a kever:
You daven to Hashem to help you in the merit of the Tzaddik. Or you can ask the Tzaddik to ask Hashem for you.

Catholicism believes in intercessory prayer, iow praying to a saint to intercede on one's behalf. I fail to see a difference.

I repeat: if you address the tzaddik and ask him to plead on your behalf, you're davening to him. That's my position and I'm sticking to it.

mom24b

Fri, Jun 23 2023, 11:26 am

werty wrote:

This is categorically false and a horrible thing to believe. Nothing derogatory was ever said against the Rebbi, just disagreed with certain aspects on how the Lubavitch chassidim were behaving . There is actually a picture of the 2 gedolim together in a warm greeting. There are many written accounts both from ppl who were close to the Lubavitcher Rebbi and ppl close to Rav Shach and say that there was no animosity between the 2 gedolim they had mutual respect for each other and held each other in high regard.

Thisisnotmyreal

Fri, Jun 23 2023, 11:35 am

mom24b wrote:

No this is false.

Thisisnotmyreal

Fri, Jun 23 2023, 12:20 pm

Chanichani2248 wrote:

Because they daven. Those who are niftar don't daven

Ok so here is where Chassidus comes in.

Chassidus tells us about Hashem and the truth about world we live in.

That there is Physical and Spiritual. Holy and mundane. Four worlds of consciousness and the ten general sfiros of each. Chassidus uses this information about the world to explain Ein Od Milvado that there's nothing but Hashem and how Hashem recreates the world constantly. That this world is really hard to explain as something real but that spiritual worlds aren't.

When you learn Chassidus you stop taking what is visible at face value. Just because I don't see something doesn't mean it's not true and just because I see something doesn't mean it is true.

When you learn Chassidus you can be painted the majestic picture of the scene takes place on high on Rosh Hashanah. The characters that we learn about and talk about in our machzor all coming before Hashem to plead their case and how all are waiting for the Shofar blast in our world to do so.

You can understand that the Neshamos of Tzaddikim are mostly spiritual and so their life does not end after death because nothing is taken away from them. They lose nothing. They are who they are and death isn't more powerful than these Tzaddikim. Yes. They aren't shaking a lulav and Esrog like we are. But they absolutely are able to continue the spiritual pursuits. They can be a meilitz yosher and they are Neshamos. The Neshamos that animate our body, but without the body.

I think it's disgusting that the only thing you can tell someone who doesn't learn Chassidus about what happens after death is how badly the person will burn in hell. Seriously if you want to know what's Christian? That is.

PinkFridge

Fri, Jun 23 2023, 1:13 pm

zaq wrote:

Even a living tzaddik? We solicit prayer all the time.
Frankly, there's something about actively soliciting prayer from a niftar that gives me pause: they're in the olam ha'emes and might know the fuller picture.