Tefillos at the Rebbe's ohel

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 9:01 am

[quote="[url=https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6976055#6976055]

Relationship with the Rebbe is called hiskashrus. We connect to the Rebbe through various means. Listening to their niggunim
Learning the Torah he taught
Following directives
Going on Shlichus
Writing to the Rebbe
Farbrengens
Watching Rebbe videos
And more.

See the Rebbe's sicha on matnas nessiim in the year Tof shin mem vov for.more details on hiskashrus with the Frierdiker Rebbe.[/quote]

Thank you for explaining this.
We all find ways to connect to important people we've lost.

But there is also a historical precedent of how we keep mesorah going.
V'zarach hashemesh uva hashemesh.
Yiftach b'doro K'Shmuel b'doro.
Lo alman Yisrael.

These are all maamrei Chazal we call on, when R"l we are faced with such loss.
I appreciate your insights into this community.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 9:10 am

werty wrote:

How is asking someone to daven for you , davening to him ?
If you ask someone to daven for a sick r"l person, are you davening to them ?

P.s. theory aside, if you peruse all the frum magazines etc, you'll notice big ads offering all different ( certainly including, if not mostly, litvish ) Gedolim to daven for you at different special places, ( including kivrei Tzadikim PPS) or at specific special times like before Rish Hashana, if you donate money to this or that Tzedaka.
So if you disapprove of the Lubavitcher Rebbe davening for people , then I assume you'll have to take it up with your Gadol as well. Its just the natural thing to do if you care about someone..

If t?

Re living people davening for you, let me add to this: the daven for me type of initiatives. Tehillim Yahad.
And here is, if I might say, the limitations to the Maharam Schick quoted: We must not feel, phew, we've outsourced our davening. We must not minimize the power of our davening.
And we must always cherish the connection davening brings us to Hashem, and always maintain it, even while we call in the cavalry, so to speak.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 9:16 am

mom24b wrote:

And this is why the average person isn’t supposed to learn the Zohar. If you don’t have extreme Torah knowledge you can’t understand its meaning and intentions. Taking it at face value is most likely very misguided.

The Zohar seems clear to me. I don't know what the next link (for more on davening by kevarim or whatever that Rabbi Freeman post) was all about, but again, I maintain that any time one advocates calling on zechus avos, and this goes with davening at kevarim, we must remember that as great as these neshamos are, asking them to daven doesn't count if we don't daven ourselves and believe in the koach of our tefillos. That they are important and valuable even when they don't "work."

Because that's a fallacy. They always work.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 9:17 am

werty wrote:

If you ask the niftar at the levaya to be a meilitz yoshar , how does that make more sense to you than after they are buried ? They are not alive then either. Maybe there are different opinions on when it is appropriate ask such a thing of a niftar, I don't know, but if you are so determined that dead people can't daven for you, then how is this different?

As far as your question , why should a different Rebbe be appointed if you can continue the relationship with the previous one:
A Rebbe does a lot more than just daven on your behalf, much as a parent or teacher does more than just daven for their child. A child who has r"l lost a parent misses the physical presence of his parent! He misses hearing them, seeing them, their guidance, their involvement, their presence, their everything! I understand that you unfortunately know this too well Sad

But that does not mean that they no longer exist, and don't see and hear you. Absolutely not. They hear and see more than ever, and you can talk to them and share your life with them emotionally. Although the lack of their ability to respond is obviously sorely missing.

I guess this is where mashpi'im come in.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 9:19 am

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

The two people involved in the article Rabbi Shick and Rabbi Freeman are hardly the average person. Please have some respect.

Both reputable sources. But I wonder, how much did one have to read in those three sources quoted, before coming up with the Maharam Schick? And was he the only non-chassidish source (not counting the Zohar, who predated chassidus)?

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 9:39 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Not much actually. All you had to do is click on this link that I've posted a few times now.

In the ask the Rav link, the Lubavitcher Rav brings more sources as footnotes to his article which are clearly not from sifrei chassidus chabad.

I mean, all you have to do is click and read like I did. I don't exactly have these links at my fingertips, I had to find them just like anyone else could.

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 9:43 am

And can we not put Maharam Schick in the same category as Tzvi Freeman.

The Maharam Schick is teaching from the Chasam Sofer, different than Tzvi Freeman who lives today and works to explains chassidus to the world.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 9:45 am

8x wrote:

No one's putting the Maharam Schick and the Chasam Sofer in the same category as a contemporary author. It's a matter of the author's choice of sources. Which are clearly not all chassidish or Chabad. That was the whole point.

I was just wondering how much I'd have to sort through to get there.

ETA: Wait, that's what you thought I meant by both reputable sources? I meant the Zohar and Maharam Schick, as sources being quoted.

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 9:55 am

PinkFridge wrote:

What I want to say actually is that anyone who clicks on the two links that are not chassidus chabad will notice that much of the information and certain sources are repetitive.
Because they are solid. There's nothing more to question about them.

The other link I brought is a further explanation on this topic from the Rebbe’s teachings, explained by Shais Taub. For those who are interested in learning deeper.

Thisisnotmyreal

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 9:31 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

But there is also a historical precedent of how we keep mesorah going.
V'zarach hashemesh uva hashemesh.

So with this in mind, what can Shemesh begivon dom on Gimmel Tammuz mean?

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 10:24 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

So with this in mind, what can Shemesh begivon dom on Gimmel Tammuz mean?

Remind me what the connection is again?
ETA:Ah, did a little googling. I won't say it's a coincidence. I will say that it's the kind of thing that lends itself to thoughtful homiletics, something to think about, but I don't know if it's some profound siman.
I'll read some of the sources that came up now.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 10:33 pm

I just tried to read an essay by R' Simon Jacobson. (I assume; it was on the Meaningful Life Center site.) It was elegant reading but maybe it's late at night. Hard for me to wrap my head around the words.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 10:41 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

The sun stood still gimmel Tammuz

Yes. I googled and found that connection. As I said, it lends itself to lovely homiletics that would make for a b'kovedig hesped, but apparently there's much more that's being read into it. (Like that Simon Jacobson link.)