Dinosaurs and Evolution

InnerMe

Thu, Jun 29 2023, 9:09 pm

my mama wrote:

Well, there are the Neanderthals, I'm not sure if there is actual proof of them existing, but I've read a couple of interesting articles about them

On that note I recently saw an article that there is proof that Neanderthals and humans had se×, I learned in school that one of the reasons for the Mabel was interspecies se×, I.e. different animals, humans and animals, and humans and giants. And one of the major issues with the humans and giants having se× was that when a human woman got pregnant she needed to abort because her body was not large enough to handle the pregnancy, and it was happening so often that the streets were littered with aborted fetuses.

This is super interesting (and gory)
Ok, slightly off topic but why do people say that the mabul was brought because of gay s-x when in actuality it was humans and animals? Is there some that say it was due to homos-xuality?

my mama

Thu, Jun 29 2023, 9:15 pm

InnerMe wrote:

I hope I have my timelines straight, but IIRC Sodom was overturned when they started worrying kesubos for same se× marriages, and all the other stuff that was happening there. The Mabul came because of the bestiality and interspecies copulation( I love this word) and all the other stuff happening then.

bgr8ful

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 3:56 am

hey I'm a little late but just saw this thread!
so I'm absolutely fascinated by this topic too and I recently read an awesome book, "the six days of creation" by alexander hool. its not too long but it does have some pretty heavy scientific stuff and I wont lie, I don't think I followed all of it, but I was able to get the general gist. this guy is brilliant and really knows his stuff.

I totally think dinosaurs existed; I mean scientists didnt find all these fossils out of thin air. scientists may not be right 100% of the time, but there is so much thats been found and studied on this topic that I think it would be kinda stupid to deny it completely. hool's theory is based on the theory of relativity, what time is etc etc, and like others have said, that it was very possible that the wednesday of creation lasted for billions of years, within which dinosaurs were created and wiped out. he ties everything with sources straight from the torah; its a really great read.

anyhoo. I shud really read it again to refresh my mind before I talk more.
fascinating topic.

DrMom

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 5:03 am

mushkamothers wrote:

3. Considering that nobody has ever seen a complete dinosaur and just put them together as fossils... the whole thing could be a myth ie who says there are as many different types as they claim

What does this mean?

Nobody has seen a live dinosaur, but entire skeletons were found. It's not as if paleontologists are just piecing together scattered fossilized bone fragments at random. Here are some samples of whole fossilized skeletons. I think you'll agree that whatever theory you want to formulate to reconcile science with Torah must allow for the existence of these creatures in the historical record.

lostprincess

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 6:38 am

Zahava94 wrote:

Also just want to gently point out to those suggesting that dinosaurs may have perished in the Mabul:
No, they didn't. Dinosaurs did not exist in the same time frame as humans.

Well actually there are proofs pointing they actually co-existed. I know it's long but totally worth watching that video I posted from Rav Zamir Cohen if you're interested in the topic.

Rappel

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 7:24 am

Zahava94 wrote:

Also just want to gently point out to those suggesting that dinosaurs may have perished in the Mabul:
No, they didn't. Dinosaurs did not exist in the same time frame as humans.

It says that the mabul "aged the world". So actually, any beings sedimented in rock may have been put there when thatworldwide cataclysmic upheaval happened, and it may not have been that long ago.

#BestBubby

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 9:12 am

Do all you ladies who are trying to believe that the world was created through billions of years of evolution

Believe that Hashem was capable of creating the entire world in one instant?

It says in Pirkei Avos, why did Hashem use 10 commands to create the world (let there be light)
When Hashem could have created the entire world with one Command.

fleetwood

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 9:15 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Not a single lady believes the earth is billions of years old. Believing in some form of evolution doesn't mean they believe the earth is billions of years old.

Please don't question their beliefs in Hashen and in his capabilities.

shyner

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 9:24 am

#BestBubby wrote:

I read two thick books debunking evolution based on scientific principles.

have you tried to read any books proving evolution?
You can't just read one viewpoint and base your understanding on that.

paperflowers

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 9:33 am

#BestBubby wrote:

I believe HaShem could have created the entire world in one instant. But I don’t believe He did. (There was definitely an instant that was a beginning). The creation of the world is hidden in very deep secrets of kabala. Not as simple as 7 literal 24 hour days.

paperflowers

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 9:34 am

#BestBubby wrote:

posters are saying that the six days of creation could have been billions of years.

That a day did not have to literally 24 hours.

This is a debate in the rishonim already. Probably earlier.

HeartyAppetite

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 9:51 am

my mama wrote:

According to science neanderthals we’re smaller than humans… go figure.

OOTforlife

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 10:21 am

ylev wrote:

I don't believe at all in the theory of evolution.
With that said it doesn't negate the existence of dinosaurs.

One of the things that Rabbi Slifkin does well in his book is separate and distinguish the different issues: age of earth, different types of evolution, existence of dinosaurs, and others, so that readers can consider them separately.

Just One

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 10:38 am

Rappel wrote:

It says that the mabul "aged the world". So actually, any beings sedimented in rock may have been put there when thatworldwide cataclysmic upheaval happened, and it may not have been that long ago.

I don't believe this theory is very reliable. Think about humans. We find older forms of human along with more primitive features and older technologies. As the human fossils and remains are closer to our time they look more like us, use more complex tools (ie primitive stone tools then more finely flaked stones then sharper blades), live in more complex, recognizable human living arrangements (hearth in one area, garbage/toileting in another area as opposed to it just being all on top of each other as in most other species), and have more complex technologies (ie evidence of fire use).
If it was all due to a Flux in carbon dating caused by the mabul, you would have evidence of a sudden abrupt aging as opposed to the current evidence which shows a slow evolutionary process.

Just One

Fri, Jun 30 2023, 10:40 am

mushkamothers wrote:

1. The lubavitcher rebbe has a letter on this here about carbon dating
https://www.chabad.org/library.....n.htm

2. We do indeed have evidence of human bones that are gigantic, they've just been erased. Lots of newspaper reports from early 1800s

3. Considering that nobody has ever seen a complete dinosaur and just put them together as fossils... the whole thing could be a myth ie who says there are as many different types as they claim

Mammoth bones look a lot like giant human bones especially the limbs. They were commonly confused as human remains.