The victim mentality of many bothers me- anyone else?

relaxation

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 11:24 am

amother Puce wrote:

40k with 3 kids.
Can you share your budget?
Housing? Food? Insurance? Tuition?
Do you have son's? Do you expect to buy their tefillin? How do you expect to marry off your kids?
When you say Hashem will help, you mean programs and tzedaka?

What's your plan if Hashem says no?

someone that lives with emuna and bitachon doesnt worry about these things. Go see how people live in eretz yisroel and their kids get tefilin and get married....
Someone that lives with emuna and bitachon knows that hashem will provide everything. If they have to worry about "what if hashem says no" then they dont have full trust and that is not emuna etc..

and frankly I feel the question is not so appropriate and nice as she was trying to give chizzuk.

You can ask how it worked out and the miraculous ways she got money and how the budget worked out but not.. "what is your plan if hahsem says no"

ora_43

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 11:25 am

amother OP wrote:

So I keep reading of people feeling they can’t make it financially and I see it in person a lot (specifically my in laws fam where they judge us for going on vacations, etc as if we’re comfortable when in reality it is just something we prioritize). Anyone else feel like this? I would say most people make more than us and are constantly complaining yet I feel it’s kind of all in their outlook. Like I kind of want to tell people no just adjust your attitude and stop playing victim. Both DH and I work for a total of 110 a year with 5kah and pay expensive out of town tuition and we really don’t feel tight. Yes we don’t have any to put away but bh can afford all necessities and vacations,etc so I just don’t understand and it really bothers me when I see people always acting and complaining they don’t have when they’re making a higher salary . Am I the only one? It’s all about attitude and hkbh always provides 🤷🏻‍♀️

On the one hand, feeling poor isn't just a mentality, it's often a reality.

OTOH, yes, it is highly annoying when people with more money than you are like "oooh, you can afford XYZ, you're so lucky." Like, just because I bought 1-2 things that you don't allow yourself doesn't mean I have more money, that's absurd. (especially when there are like 20 things you buy that I don't)

(although on the other other hand, occasionally they're not wrong - trying to figure out who has more resources can get complicated even when you have full access to all the details. since things like family help and emotional support, physical energy, health, intelligence, community support, etc, can be worth money.)

BH Yom Yom

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 12:13 pm

relaxation wrote:

Um asking for tzedaka (meshulachim who fly to the US going door to door to raise money to marry off their kids and buy them an apartment) is not bitachon.

relaxation

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 12:16 pm

BH Yom Yom wrote:

Um asking for tzedaka (meshulachim who fly to the US going door to door to raise money to marry off their kids and buy them an apartment) is not bitachon.

you really mean they get to collect enough money to an apartment (which is some places is equivalent to the price of a house here ) ?

amother

Ballota

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 12:25 pm

amother Denim wrote:

This is a very tone deaf post, especially on a site like this where we have seen there are more than a few people in dire poverty.

You need to provide your budget if you’re going to say that 110k a year is enough for 5 kids. Because there’s something off here. It’s not enough. Frum family life is so expensive.

People are in pain. They can’t pay tuition. They haven’t been on vacations in years.. They buy clothes from target and Walmart but it only helps them a bit because frum inflation has outpaced inflation and everything is unaffordable to a middle class family that was making it just three years ago.

Have you ever lied awake at night, crying because you can’t afford to buy your kids enough food? Because the debt you’re in is towering over you and the walls of the tiny apartment you live in and can’t afford the rent to are closing in on you? While you see others going on vacations and living in homes that fit their family and grocery shopping without stress, casually speaking of these things as if they’re not the biggest gifts in the world.

It’s not about attitude. It’s about numbers not adding up. It’s about constant financial stress that eats you up.

This thread is very insensitive. Appreciate your unusually low expenses and daven for and donate to the poor in our community. Don’t judge them for being sad about their objectively sad situation.

Just change your mindset and all your worries will disappear! (Sarcasm)

BH Yom Yom

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 12:28 pm

relaxation wrote:

you really mean they get to collect enough money to an apartment (which is some places is equivalent to the price of a house here ) ?

I mean that claiming to “just have bitachon, Hashem will work it out” while going around collecting (including from people who are themselves struggling) is not actual bitachon.

amother

Puce

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 12:32 pm

relaxation wrote:

you really mean they get to collect enough money to an apartment (which is some places is equivalent to the price of a house here ) ?

It's their back up plan.
I have Israeli Chareidi family. They have a lot of emuna and bitachon that Hashem will provide. And when He doesn't, He says no, that's ok "we'll just go to America or Europe and collect, at least enough to cover the worst debts".
Like I said, back up plan for when Hashem says no.

amother

Begonia

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 12:42 pm

relaxation wrote:

you really mean they get to collect enough money to an apartment (which is some places is equivalent to the price of a house here ) ?

They must, because they keep coming back to collect!
And I, as well as several friends, have had the experience of old classmates who moved to EY after marriage and stayed, contact us years later to ask for our help aka donations so they can buy an apartment or marry off a kid. They don't seem to get that many of the ones they are asking for help don't own a house or are struggling to pay their own basic living expenses. They are clueless and assume all working Americans have plenty of money.

amother

Taupe

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 12:43 pm

amother Puce wrote:

I live in a charedi yeshivish Israeli community and I don't know of a single person like this. I don't know any one of my friends or neighbors who have gone collecting. They work their socks off to pay for things, live extremely simply and give their children what they can. I don't know your family but this is motzai shem ra on an entire community.

relaxation

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 1:09 pm

amother Begonia wrote:

my question which I wonder is why no one here does such a thing ? (collect money to buy a house)
Although I have seen people buy houses and afterwards hear of these campains to raise money as their home is up to preforclosure...

amother

Puce

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 1:26 pm

relaxation wrote:

Because it's due to cultural differences.
These communities that collect also give their daughters a full apartment or a half apartment when they get married.
So they collect under hachnosas kalla so a kalla from a poor family can get married owning an apartment.

No one goes around saying I'm collecting to buy an apartment. Just I'm collecting for hachnosas kalla

amother

Clematis

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 2:57 pm

amother Coral wrote:

I agree its all about attitude.

At one point, when I had 3 little ones I stopped working and DH was learning, not bringing in a penny... we survived on $400 a month. sounds insane? It was. we were starving, no money for groceries etc. the cc were paid off with the with the end of the year tax return stipend.

But guess what. since I didnt have the time and money to go shopping, I found different outlets. I found Hashem. I found the beauty of the torah and mitzvah's. I started appreciating nature. The beauty of a childs smile. The fun part of journaling.

There's a beautiful world you can access without money.

Now things settled bh, and I have income of $40k a year and yes we manage to go on vacation. and to stretch it thin.

and as OP stated, Hashem is always hear to help and hear us.

Why did your husbands rosh yeshiva allow him to stay in kollel if his wife and 3 kids were starving and living off $400?

Please, you sound delusional. Its hard to appreciate your childs smile when youre so crippled with anxiety about paying for groceries the next week.

Does journaling pay rent?

amother

Cantaloupe

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 6:39 pm

Like OP & others have said - it is totally an attitude thing. You can have nothing and with bitachon your attitude is 'it will all be ok'. Or you can live stressed out (like I do). I know - since I am working on myself, that stressing out about financial situation (or any situation) does not change the reality - so why worry! You do as much hishtadlus as you can and the rest is up to The One Above. Easier said than done.
That being said - what is OP's financial breakdown?

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 6:43 pm

amother Whitewash wrote:

I don't feel like we can spend but I don't feel overly deprived. We're making under $100k while my husbands starts his business because we realized rent and babysitting costs will increase faster than a salary so we werent really able to save up for a house. I've accepted that this is a strictly budget stage in life. Iyh one day either my husband will make it big or the rich family member who doesn't like to be directly asked for help will offer on their own accord for something bigger than a couch

My rich sister gives us nothing! Then again, we've never asked.

amother

Hosta

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 6:47 pm

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

I think there's a balance. I don't stress about the bank accounts, I buy what I need to buy (which for me includes a cleaning lady twice a month) , but I don't spend on extras that aren't necessary (like vacations or name brand clothes). Everyone has their own cheshbonos of what's necessary or not for them.

amother

DarkGreen

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 7:30 pm

amother Hosta wrote:

The big factor when your income is that low is all the things the government provides instead of you having to buy it. I'm sure the government pays for your food, instead of the $1000 a month I spend. So that's another $12k a year. The government pays for your insurance instead of the 800 a month I spend which is another $7200 a year. Etc etc. If you're not working you're not spending 2k a month on daycare and preschool. That's 24k a year. Maybe you were even lucky enough to get subsidized housing which is worth a ton. So yes, you can survive on a prayer and tzedaka/ government money. But once you hit middle class going gets harder.

This is not true for everyone. Combined we make about $50k a year which is about $100 too much for government health insurance and $1000 too much for government food program. And we are drowning in debt. Not trying to be a victim, but we aren't making it

amother

DarkGreen

Thu, Jul 13 2023, 7:33 pm

relaxation wrote:

But this is not always true. There are many incredible tzaddikim who are paupers. Hashem doesn't always say "yes". They can say "it's ok anyways because it's Hashem plan", but not "Hashem will make sure everyone has everything" because it's not always true.