Shabbat is not Thanksgiving

Chickensoupprof

Wed, Aug 09 2023, 1:52 pm

In my case I can't go to a store and fetch some salatim or ready to make stuff. Even when I would live in Amsterdam I would also not really have the opportunity to get stuff. So I make everything myself 😊.

I do think people who got frum get a wrong perception of shabbos and YT. You are being pulled towards lavish meals. Because that is how you get people in kiruv. Even when you don't know how to handle a siddur, or you are not interested yet in learning chumash, gemare or mussar yet you always want to eat.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Aug 09 2023, 3:24 pm

Im very sad to hear about these lavish kiruv meals so many are talling about.
I grew up in the MO kiruv world (yes, there really is such a world)
My parents had people starting on their journey back to frumkeit and also on their way converts. There were no lavish meals. There were notmal shabbat meals (not like mine. Growing up we had soup, gefilte, chicken courses).
My husband also went through the kiruv world. Not in america. No lavish meals. Just regular nice regal shabbat meals.
This seems to be part of a specific kiruv community. And its a sad statement that so msny bts have said that shabbat prep is hard because they assume one MUST have such meals. That is not what make ir breaks one's frum status. And should not make women break themselves either. Thats not good either.

dena613

Wed, Aug 09 2023, 3:40 pm

Friday night

Challah (store or homemade- but when I make I freeze a few weeks worth)
One store bought dip
Gefilte fish
Chrein

Chicken soup with kneidlach and soup nuts

Chicken
A kugel (potato, apple, whatever - also make a lot and freeze)
Frozen string beans or broccoli spiced and put in oven
Mini pepper spiced and baked in oven(haven't done it since I learned need to cut off tops and rinse insides)

No dessert

Shabbos Day

Challah and dip
Cholent

If I have guests:

Friday night

First course
Additional dip
One or two salads

Main course
Additional side dish like a different kugel, perhaps a deli roll

Dessert

Shabbos day-
Additional dip
One or two salads
Fish (salmon?)
Deli Roll
Some other side dish
Dessert

oakandfig19

Wed, Aug 09 2023, 3:52 pm

I’m confused by this. I’m a BT. The most lavish meals I’ve been to are hosted by FFBs. I know a lot of BTs that make simple food for Shabbos.
I’ve given up on making fancy food because it’s just not important to me, especially like now when I’m pregnant and food just isn’t as appealing. For dinner when it’s just us I make one course- soup, OR chicken and a side and veggies. For lunch it’s cholent and a side and a salad, or something else simple like meatloaf. When having guests I serve 3 courses Friday night, and for lunch I do several sides plus schnitzel with the cholent. But me, my husband and toddler don’t need all that. I buy challah and desserts are usually a quick cookie recipe.

Chickensoupprof

Wed, Aug 09 2023, 4:39 pm

oakandfig19 wrote:

I’m also BT and in the NL I went to sluchim only in my first years and it was super simple most of the time. One friend is a shliach and she is really lavish but both she and her husband love cooking and she loves baking.

I’ve seen lavish stuff more in the Americanised Israeli kiruv stuff like “welcome in the holy land here is a medium rare steak” but when I was once in Israel I’ve seen it once or twice and it were mostly really over the top people and they all told me I was soooooooo yekkish bh I am yekkish

zaq

Wed, Aug 09 2023, 4:48 pm

sari00 wrote:

Without guests:
Chicken soup, gefitle, shnitzel, Cholent, deli roll, baked Chicken dish, sides are lots of salads, roasted veggies, potatoes, rice, string beans
Dessert ice cream and cookies, easy cake

. This is your regular Shabbat menu with no guests? Then you're one of the people causing this hyperinflation of expectations.

LovesHashem

Wed, Aug 09 2023, 5:26 pm

grace413 wrote:

"

I love to eat (and it shows). I grew up in a home where Friday night was chicken soup, chicken, salad, potato kugel and cake. Shabbat lunch was gefilte fish, cholent, salad, cake. And everybody was satisfied and full.

I make a menu similarly. I make a few dips, and I do make a veggies side for shabbos day but really the same idea, and it takes me at least 5 hours.

This is still a LOT. It's not as much as an average day at all. This is definitely an amount of dishes people make for Thanksgiving, and if there's more variety it's because often others bring and make stuff too.

LovesHashem

Wed, Aug 09 2023, 5:28 pm

jd1212 wrote:

I don’t think I’ve seen one mention of husbands here. What’s with all the wives being the martyr? We split up cooking in my house.

Same. My husband LOVES to cook. I wouldn't even know how to make a potato kugel. He doesn't follow a recipe, just knows when the consistently looks right. It always comes out so good.

rainbow dash

Wed, Aug 09 2023, 5:29 pm

I'm a BT, dh is ffb. I would eat out a lot even when I lived at home.

Fri night
Cooked salmon
Homemade tomato dip / eggplant dip
Sometimes chicken soup if its not late or hot
Chicken
Potato kugel
Salad
No dessert it's usually very late

Shabbos day
Left over salmon, smoke salmon
Cholent
Salad
Egg mash
Sometimes coldcuts
No dessert

Challah is store brought.

care4u

Wed, Aug 09 2023, 6:07 pm

zaq wrote:

. This is your regular Shabbat menu with no guests? Then you're one of the people causing this hyperinflation of expectations.

Why would anyone feel pressure from what someone else does in the privacy of their own home?
I grew up frum. Shabbos is a day to honor & beautify.
Do NOT insult someone for doing a hiddur mitzvah, especially for their own family! And to honor guests...Avraham slaughtered 3 animals just for their tongues, one per guest. Yosef moker shabbos kept buying the biggest fish.
It's in the Torah, we honor shabbos, we honor guests.
If you can't do that, it's fine. Your choice. Or life happens etc
But that's not l'chatchilah.

mom of 8

Wed, Aug 09 2023, 6:45 pm

I think that the most important purchase for a Jewish household is an extra freezer. Every Sunday one or two things are made and frozen in bulk. I have a big family bh. So I need to do a full rotation every month...but if you have a smaller family it can last longer. I do a double batch challah one week 4 cakes another. Lukshen, knaidelach and fried onions for the chulent I do in bigger bulk and it last 2 months. Deli roll is done once a month..just prepped and frozen raw. Same with chicken . ( If I prep meat for when I have guest, I freeze it cooked) gefilte salmon eggs string beans chulent and 2 pans of potato kugel are prepped every week. Plus an Israeli salad for Friday night. And a lettuce salad for shabbos day. I buy dips every other week. Dessert is ices or ice cream or fruit unless the kids want to prep something. I start the prep on Wed night with gefilte and egg salad( that can last in the fridge for up to a week). Thurs all potatoes are peeled for chulent and kugel and beans are soaked and string beans and salmon prepped and I take out everything from the freezer aside from challah and cake that come out on Fri. On Friday morning the chulent kugel salmon and string beans get cooked. ( And deli roll if I'm serving) when I have guests that have picky kids, I'll make fried cutlets on Friday that I bread Thurs night. And sometimes I'll make rice or roasted potatoes Bec the kugel gets finished before shabbos. This way everything is cooked so that my cleaning lady can get to the kitchen before she leaves at 1 . I wash all the dishes but leave the sinks, stove and floor for her. I do not have a big kitchen..so my extra freezer is in my boys room .

nylon

Thu, Aug 10 2023, 2:49 am

I'm BT and my shabbat meals re not as elaborate as thanksgiving. I grew up in a family where we were expected to have lots of options for each course for thanksgiving (it was an extended family day) plus hors d'oeuvres for before, etc.

Not only is it a lot of effort of results in a ton of leftovers, more than I could ever use. So no I would never cook like that on Shabbat. I do think there's pressure in some circles to have elaborate Shabbat meals especially if you are hosting guests, and if you're a BT or ger you don't have family traditions to pull on.

I try to keep my Shabbat meals festive but not very complicated. I add more if we have guests. I don't do two mains unless we are having enough people that it's worth making a meat and a chicken instead of just making more of one of them. I don't live somewhere I can get really good ready made salatim or such to round the meal out. If I did I might serve more.

If it's just us, I serve either soup, fish, or some other appetizer, not multiple appetizer courses. I have the base stocks and a few other things for soups in my freezer so I can turn out a soup quickly. Then main dish, starch side, at least one vegetable cooked with the meat or separately, and some type of salad. A dessert. Challah. I make it fancier by picking recipes I wouldn't make on a regular weeknight. With guests I will add a second appetizer, some extra sides, maybe a choice of dessert.

Shabbat lunch varies a lot. In summer I serve it cold (I can't face hot cholent after walking home this time of year!)

DrMom

Thu, Aug 10 2023, 3:36 am

Raisin wrote:

It could be as much work, especially if you make your own challa and dessert and are not buying ready made foods. A typical meal involves challa. gefilta fish, at least one salad, several dips. Then chicken soup, with maybe matza balls or lokshen. Then chicken, at least one kugel or side, a veg side dish. Dessert.

I host a lot and don't make that many courses but it still takes me from thursday night to get ready for shabbos. Even during covid when I wasn't hosting it still took me time (maybe more because I didn't have cleaning help)

Yikes. This sounds like so much more food than I would like to eat at a single meal. I'd be okay with challah, chicken soup, and salad. Maybe another side dish.

Unless portions of each are very tiny. In which case, it would be far simpler to just make fewer dishes.

kollel_wife

Thu, Aug 10 2023, 1:00 pm

I think one thing everyone is forgetting is that even if you grew up with Shabbos meals, which weren't anything fancy, but more than a weeknight supper, being married, working, running a household, shopping and cooking for weekdays and Shabbos, is something that takes getting used to. Even the girl who helped at home, didn't have full responsiblity, and the BT or giyores has a lot of the same adjustment.

LovesHashem

Thu, Aug 10 2023, 1:18 pm

DrMom wrote:

I stopped making main course for Friday night completely. (unless we have guests) I make a huge chicken soup with tons of chicken and kneidels. Along with alot of dips and salatim for first course we are soooo full after soup.

zaq

Thu, Aug 10 2023, 2:03 pm

care4u wrote:

Don't be naive. People are influenced by what they see, and never more so than in frum circles, particularly RW frum circles where conformity is king. You go to the Tellers and they serve seventeen courses. Now when you invite the Tellers back, along with the Kochleffels, the Hockmessers, and the Spritzflasches, you can't possibly serve your usual three courses, but have to go for the seventeen. The Tellers take this for granted, because they are in the catering biz, but the Kochleffels, who are gerim, the Hockmessers, who are recent BTs, and the Spritzflasches, who are the same tradition as you but from another country, are horrified and intimidated, assuming that this is an obligation. So they struggle to produce seventeen courses, too, and next thing you know, it's not just the Tellers serving seventeen courses, but your whole little community of West Gluttonshire. And most of them are struggling to do this.

It's called "keeping up with the Cohens" and it's a disease.

keym

Thu, Aug 10 2023, 2:09 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

When we skip the main course, we're just not full.
I started skipping the fish, salads, dips Fri night. Challa, straight to soup, chicken, kugel, salad.
Day we have the fish, salads, dips, then cholent and kugel.