I was a staunch Vaxxer then went completely anti vax - AMA

amother

Aqua

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 12:40 pm

amother Cherry wrote:

The things you’re spewing are so utterly ridiculous I wonder just how much research you’ve actually done. Childhood illnesses on the rise?!

Bill Bryson once wrote, "The world before the modern era was overwhelmingly a place of tiny coffins."

Here are the facts:

In the olden days, half of children did not make it past the age of five.

Only 200 years ago (1800), the global child mortality rate (the number of children dying under five) was over 40%. This was an improvement over the centuries prior (!!). In the US it was slightly higher, at 45%. That means if you gave birth to ten children (common), you should expect to bury on average four or five of them BEFORE THEY TURNED FIVE.

Only 70 years ago, after World War 2, the global child mortality rate was still over 20%. That means if you gave birth to ten children, you should expect to bury on average two of them before they turned five. The US was much better than the rest of the world at 5%- so if you and one neighbor each gave birth to ten children, one of you should expect to bury a child before they turn five.

Currently, the global child mortality rate is under 4%, and in the U.S. (and other very developed countries) it is around half a percent. That means if you and twenty neighbors each give birth to ten children, odds are only one will have a child who won’t make it to the age of five.

Please don’t believe the nonsense of “childhood disease is on the rise”. Without modern medicine and vaccines, half of these children wouldn’t have survived in the first place, and would have suffered through far more and far worse diseases to boot. Any sensationalist headline you read is hyper focused on a specific time and demographic and is very misleading.

https://ourworldindata.org/gra.....D_WRL

https://www.statista.com/stati.....hday.

https://childmortality.org/data

You're talking to former pro-vaxers. Do you think this is a point they haven't considered?

Also, the word spewing is rude.

amother

Cadetblue

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 1:01 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

There are many medical advances that cut child mortality that are not vaccines such as
Antibiotics, insulin, incubators.

But while mortality has dropped,

chronic illness like diabetes, autism, cancer, allergies, asthma, crowns, IBS, tourettes, etc
Has skyrocketed

in correlation to tripling the vaccine schedule.

First of all correlation doesn't equal causation. Secondly, these chronic illnesses were very likely undiagnosed in years past, which means that technically there are higher rates these days, but not that there were less cases when there wasn't the knowledge to diagnose them. In the 1800s, if less people were getting diagnosed with cancer, does that mean the rate of people dying of cancer was lower? It just wasn't discovered as a cause of death.
People don't consider this when looking at past vs. present data

GLUE

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 1:02 pm

amother OP wrote:

You’re telling me the rubella shot was tested against a placebo? Because there’s documents proving that this is incorrect. There has been not one single vaccine tested against a placebo. These documents were subpoenaed by rf Kennedy and he has them listed on his website showing that not one was tested against a placebo control group.

I found this out when I was doing research on abortion, not vaccine. From what I was reading the Catholic church was a big player in this vaccine to help stop abortion.
This shot was tested in Catholic orphanages were they split the kids into 4 groups. One group did not get anything not a placebo or any type of shot.
So yes, I do agree with you that they did not test this shot with any placebo.

amother

Azure

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 1:13 pm

amother Aqua wrote:

First of all, I have a problem with not being advised as to the risk factors.

We never are, with vaccines, other than risk of a temporary fever and numbness at the injection site. As a new mother, I would have appreciated hearing about this potential to develop a peanut allergy.

I also would like to know more about the risk of blood clotting in newborns. For a vaccine to be given to every newborn, the risk of clotting should be extremely high. Color me skeptical. What are the risk factors for clotting? Why wasn't I given the opportunity to make my own determination that my dc perhaps did not have any of those risk factors so better to skip the vitamin K shot?

Now Idk if you have any children with peanut allergies, but I do. And it's absolutely nothing to be flippant about. Not only are accidental exposures terrifying and potentially life-threatening, they bring with them constant anxiety.

First of all, vitamin K is not a vaccine.

Secondly, if you are nervous about the risks, go ahead and do your research. I'm pretty sure if you refuse it the hospital can't force it on your baby. If they do, you are right, that is wrong and not fair. But doesn't really have anything to do with actual science/side effects/risk vs. benefit and more to do with hospital policies or whatever.

Also I've heard stories of babies dying from brain bleeds when the hospital forgot to give the shot. But that's just anecdotal so don't need to take it as a fact.

And yes, actually my DH and one DC are allergic to peanuts. I'm chilled about it. School is nut free and they carry epipens with them. So far no ER visits or anything serious BH. I daven, do my hishtadlus and believe Hashem will take care of them. It's also not healthy to live with anxiety.

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 1:15 pm

amother Orchid wrote:

Do you see a difference in your kids health in the ones that are vaxxed and non vaxxed?

My baby is now 8 months and my husband is adamant that this kid will not get any vaccine I have been listening to him for now.

He had a ruptured ear drum just like his older brother
He had a fever seizure just like his older sister
He needed albutral just like a few older brothers.

Shabbosiscoming

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 1:30 pm

Side note on the "placebo" studies: contrary to popular belief, you can have strong, rigorous studies without blind randomized control tests with a placebo. Especially when it comes to medicine, it's problematic because you run into ethic problems. An intervention is often measured against a control group that receives the current standard intervention or in some case no intervention, if that is ethical.

amother

Aqua

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 1:30 pm

amother Azure wrote:

Personally I'm past the stage of newborns so it's not relevant to me personally. If it were, I would absolutely do the research. Back then, I was completely trusting and it never occurred to me to question. That's why everything should be presented with the pros and cons, vaccine or otherwise, like all medical interventions.

amother

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 1:57 pm

amother Crocus wrote:

Not sure if this was asked but do any of your older vaxxed kids have any side effects? Is there any difference in health between the older ones and younger ones? What is it?

My oldest two - one has raynauds and one was diagnosed with pandas at 2.5. The second was by mistake given the hpv 🤢 and had some other issues I think are related. Middle - thankfully nothing that has come up.
My younger two have also had vaccines - but not the full amount - also they’re much younger than my older ones - but my second to youngest had more than my youngest and was displaying signs of autism at 2 and we haven’t vaccinated since. And my youngest - I was pregnant with when I got the covid jab so I definitely think that had some affect on his immune system as he spent some time with ear infections that I’ve never really dealt with before.
I have nothing to compare it to yet, as they’re too young and also all of them had more than a few vaccines.
Had I had an unvaxxed child, I’d be able to give a better idea comparing one to the other. But so far, unfortunately they all have some of it in them.

amother

Crocus

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 2:00 pm

amother OP wrote:

My oldest two - one has raynauds and one was diagnosed with pandas at 2.5. The second was by mistake given the hpv 🤢 and handsome other issues I think are related. Middle - thankfully nothing that has come up.
My younger two have also had vaccines - but not the full amount - also they’re much younger than my older ones - but my second to youngest had more than my youngest and was displaying signs of autism at 2 and we haven’t vaccinated since. And my youngest - I was pregnant with when I got the covid jab so I definitely think that had some affect on his immune system as he spent some time with ear infections that I’ve never really dealt with before.
I have nothing to compare it to yet, as they’re too young and also all of them had more than a few vaccines.
Had I had an unvaxxed child, I’d be able to give a better idea comparing one to the other. But so far, unfortunately they all have some of it in them.

If I had 6 children vaxxed with bh no side affects that I know of, bh healthy almost never at the doctor, would you say I continue giving the vaccines?

Seems like their are genes that are more susceptible to reactions, and mine aren’t bh!

amother

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 2:00 pm

amother Bone wrote:

Nice for speaking out OP. Fellow "anti vaxxer" here.
What state do you live in? How do you get your kids into school?
I only have a 3 year old so BH not dealing with issues but I am worried for next year. I live in New York.

In what other ways do you protect your familys health?

Hope this can help you - https://www.nvic.org/

I’m not in the USA.
I’ve since stopped using deodorant with aluminum, sunscreen, and started reading ingredients on labels of shampoos and soaps. Trying to eat cleaner and more from scratch.
Educating myself.

#BestBubby

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 2:03 pm

Shabbosiscoming wrote:

1. Double blind placebo studies is the gold standard, nothing else comes close.

2. There is no ethics problem to do a Vax v unvax study, just compare the health outcomes of people who chose to be unvaxxed against the general population.

But CDC refuses.

In fact, when people started demanding a vax v unvax study, government response was to remove all Vax exemptions so there is no unvax control group to compare!

If that doesn't open your eyes, than nothing will.

amother

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 2:06 pm

amother Crocus wrote:

If I had 6 children vaxxed with bh no side affects that I know of, bh healthy almost never at the doctor, would you say I continue giving the vaccines?

Seems like there are genes that are more susceptible to reactions, and mine aren’t bh!

Who am I to ever tell you how to raise your children? I’m just looking out for my kids and doing the best I can, which I’m sure everyone here is as well.
I actually didn’t think of these things being related to vaccines, until I learned otherwise, and it just wasn’t worth the risk for me when I couldn’t see the benefit of the vaccine.
You do you Smile

Be grateful.
You can always stall with a shot, but you can’t ever take it away. So it’s always easy to say I was lucky till now. But what if one time you’re not so lucky? Is it worth that risk? But many people think it goes both ways.
I didn’t question anything up to this point, I do now.
That would be my only advice - question everything, don’t just do it because they tell you. They’re your kids. You need to take care of them if something goes wrong. They don’t and won’t care.