Rebbe and Morah who potch at home

amother

Marigold

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 2:59 am

amother OP wrote:

Because you’re threatening your kids. It’s a control tactic. If you don’t listen to mommy you’re going to get a potch… Banging head

IMHO this is the issue. The threat.
You can have consequences and punishments, but you should never threaten your kids with what they'll get after. You can calmly state the consequence or punishment that they'll get after they do something as long as you have in mind that this is not a control tactic/threat.

Kids that get threats to take away their treats or not get something are way worse off than a kids that got a light potch but no threat.

amother

Dustypink

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 8:26 am

amother OP wrote:

I’m not concerned the mechaneches would potch my kid. No teacher hits high school students.

It makes me uncomfortable that she doesn’t know something so basic that potching isn’t good chinuch.
So many expert mechanchim and gedolim have spoken out against potching. Why are they potching still if it’s known to be wrong? That all.
I have children at all ages and stages bh.

This is your opinion. It's not the poor teachers problem that you don't think that she's parenting the right way. And you know nothing, besides for that she may potch, and you're getting all dramatic about it.
And which gedolim spoke out against potching? I'm not aware of any that did.
Rav Moshe, Rav Kanievsky, and many more, potched their children & their children potch their own children. They said that they wouldn't be what they are now, if they hadn't been potched as kids.
A potch, doesn't mean angry, threatening, abusive, spanking. You need to tell yourself this.

Chayalle

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 8:51 am

amother DarkGray wrote:

Which gedolim spoke against potching? Cuz the Torah says otherwise. Did they change the rules?

I happen to know mechanchim that do believe in giving.

Again, in a house that you potch and don't show love, that is a problem.

In some houses where they don't potch, they yell a lot or put down the kids. IMO that is not better chinuch.

R' Mattisyahu Salomon of Lakewood, for one. I heard him say it with my own ears. You can also read the book on his shiurim - I think it's called Raising Children with Love.

BTW R' Yaakov Kaminetsky was also against potching.

Though I am against potching as a chinuch tool (or any other kind of tool), I agree with posters that it's not the worst of the worst (if it's minor). Like, I agree that if you are yelling instead, that's just as bad or can be worse. The idea is, if you are overly using control, hitting, yelling, or anything your kids find threatening as your go-to parenting method, you need an overhaul in parenting. I strongly recommend a parenting course (Torah umesorah has some good ones.)

amother

Heather

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 8:58 am

I know a Rebbe and Morah who potch at home, and I was surprised when they mentioned it because they are THE kindest, most patient, wholesome parents I have ever met. We have stayed by them extensively, so I really do get to see all what goes on.

I once saw her potch her toddler, and it was just a little smack on the hand - the child didn't even cry. And it was because she got the matches and tried to light - she was too young to understand logic and the mother wanted to be sure she understood not to touch matches. It honestly seemed less traumatic than what most parents would have done, which is hollered and carried on.

I don't agree with potching, but I also would not hesitate to leave my child with them because they are truly the best people and much better parents than I am in most ways.

It's OKAY to have some differences - it doesn't make everyone "bad" who does it differently.

Also, potching can mean VERY different things ...

Chayalle

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 8:58 am

amother DarkGray wrote:

Which gedolim spoke against potching? Cuz the Torah says otherwise. Did they change the rules?

I also want to say that the Torah does not say anything about potching. It says Chasoch Shivto, and many meforshim translate that as Shevet Hamusar. IOW, a parent must discipline their child. But discipline does not have to be a potch! And we do know that the Torah does say that one who raises their hand to hit is called a Rasha. The implication of this is, there are far better methods of discipline.

Many years ago I read an article about this in The Jewish Observor. Which was backed by mechanchim, Gedolim, Rabbanim, etc...and the consensus was that potching was not a good method of chinuch in this generation (and maybe in previous generations as well. Already in the earlier 1900's R' Yaakov Kaminetsky was against Rebbes hitting in the classroom....and he was pro gentler methods of chinuch in the home.)

Chayalle

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 8:59 am

[quote="amother Sapphire"]]Again, I wonder why you aren't as concerned about parents who yell or do other harmful actions towards their kids.[/quote]

I am. But I'm not the OP.

Chayalle

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 9:03 am

amother OP wrote:

To me potching is so bad that it completely disqualifies you from any sort of chinuch role.

Even as someone against potching, I don't agree with this per se. I think it would depend on the degree and instances and duration of that potching (for example, the poster who said she's seen a slight tap on the toddler's hand.) When it's not strong, infrequent, and ends at about the toddler stage, I wouldn't think it disqualifies the person.

amother

Dustypink

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 9:03 am

Chayalle wrote:

The torah calls a rasha, one that raises their hand to hit a friend. The torah does not call a rasha one that hits their child or Talmid for chinuch.

Chayalle

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 9:05 am

amother Dustypink wrote:

The torah calls a rasha, one that raises their hand to hit a friend. The torah does not call a rasha one that hits their child or Talmid for chinuch.

The thing is, it would have to qualify as chinuch to the nth degree. And I have seen parents who supposedly hit their children for chinuch...and let me just say, the parent was being a rasha. It was NOT chinuch.

amother

Sapphire

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 9:11 am

[quote="Chayalle"]

amother Sapphire wrote:

]Again, I wonder why you aren't as concerned about parents who yell or do other harmful actions towards their kids.[/quote]

I am. But I'm not the OP.

Ok, but you're also not starting threads that you're concerned about your kids having teachers who do x or y as chinuch in their homes. As I wrote earlier, if we disqualify anyone who potches or yells at their kids, how large of a pool or potential teachers will we have? In an ideal world I would also choose ideal teachers for my kids. But that's not consistent with reality.

amother

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 9:12 am

Chayalle wrote:

Thanks Chayalle for your post. I value your opinion a lot.

amother

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 9:13 am

amother Sapphire wrote:

Again, I wonder why you aren't as concerned about parents who yell or do other harmful actions towards their kids.

I am. I never said that I am a not, just this thread is in reference to potching.

amother

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 9:15 am

amother Dustypink wrote:

Dusty pink, you seem very intent on defending potching. I think it’s important to reflect on why you are so determined to support it.

amother

Dustypink

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 9:21 am

amother OP wrote:

Dusty pink, you seem very intent on defending potching. I think it’s important to reflect on why you are so determined to support it.

I'm not defending potching. I'm trying to explain to you that potching isn't automatically abusive and wrong. But you don't seem to be interested in opinions besides for your own.
I did not share what my parenting methods are, but I'm confident in my parenting bh.

amother

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 9:22 am

amother Dustypink wrote:

I'm not defending potching. I'm trying to explain to you that potching isn't automatically abusive and wrong. But you don't seem to be interested in opinions besides for your own.

Do you potch your children?

amother

Dustypink

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 9:26 am

amother OP wrote:

Do you potch your children?

As I said, I'm confident in our parenting methods, whatever they may be, and we're bh blessed to see great results.
I also understand that there's no one way that's perfect parenting, and different people have different methods & ways that may be good parenting, even if I don't agree with that method.

amother

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 9:29 am

amother Dustypink wrote:

You are avoiding the question and you have every right to do so. If you are potching just pick up the phone and call a respected parenting expert. It can be across the board as I’m pretty confident nowadays no expert will advocate for potching. It’s unheard of.