How to speak to teen DD about dressing slightly s#xy

Rappel

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 9:51 am

WhatFor wrote:

Oy, I strongly disagree with the bolded. Not only does this affirm to her that externals are a top priority in terms of receiving affirmation, this is also mean-girl type middot to teach a 13 yo.

Imagine your kid hears someone rudely gossiping about her outfit? Or even an adult hears this about themselves? There are better ways.

I guess it came across differently in text than in real life.

My assumption was that they're already taking about fashion, and that the OP would gently and kindly introduce advice/information without it being about her DD directly. Mean girl attitude was not intended.

amother

Dustypink

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 10:22 am

Rappel wrote:

My kids are still young. Thoughts:

When you're hanging out with her, comment on fashion you see around you - "that's classy!" "Umm, I think that's a wardrobe mistake. She looks like that jacket is too small on her." "That's a perfect work outfit" "I like that exercise outfit, but her legs look cold with such short leggings."

Tell her she's beautiful and valuable, and have relationships talks with her. But let her and her mirror judge her own wardrobe.

Please don’t do this. I grew up with my mother constantly commenting on other people’s outfits and it bothered me so much. She came off as super judgmental, critical and mean. It always made me get defensive over the strangers (or my friends!) outfits and start trying to find reasons in my head that the outfits were okay, find the redeeming qualities.

As a teen, when I wanted to annoy my mother, the first thing I turned to was, you guessed it! dressing the way I knew she didn’t like. All those years of commenting on others outfit choices just gave me ammunition to get under her skin.

This is not a healthy way to instill any sort of life lessons for a young girl. It will absolutely backfire, the only question is how quickly.

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 10:30 am

I don't know if I have good advice for OP, as we are in different circles. But as the mother of a teen, I find that taking her shopping for nice clothes that she likes AND are tznius works very well. Teens love new clothes, love shopping, and I find it worthwhile to stretch myself sometimes and buy her that pretty new sweater that is tznius AND fashionable and makes her feel good about herself when she looks nice and appropriately dressed. Compliments ("that looks lovely on you, sweetheart") are always a bonus.

amother

Camellia

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 10:31 am

amother Hawthorn wrote:

It seems from this that you are living in a place where attention from boys is okay at this age. Otherwise boys wouldn't be telling her friends that they like her. Anyone would enjoy that kind of attention. I wouldn't turn this into a girl-boy thing. Sit down and learn the halachos together. Make it non-emotional. Simple halachos the same as any other halachos. Hilchos tznius. Hilchos yichud. Hilchos shmiras einayim.

You'd be surprised.
I grew up in monsey ny, and went to bais yaakov schools, in a right wing community.

I had a crush on more than one boy, and if I knew I'd be at an event where other boys were (shul chanukah party, even with a mechitzah-you still see them, neighborhood kiddush, chola hamoed outing etc) I dressednextra carefully with them in mind.
And, at least once or twice, I or my friends heard through a grapevine that so and so (a boy) thought we were cute/they liked us etc. Often these boys were brothers or cousins of another girl.

Happens in the most right wing communities, just quietly

amother

Poinsettia

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 11:58 am

amother OP wrote:

My 13 yo physically mature DD BH is very pretty and I see boys/men looking at her. I get that, that’s on them BUT I have also noticed she is starting to dress a little different then I would like..
clothes a little (ok more then a little) tight, She also wears a little makeup. I do think she applies it tastefully so that really isn’t the issue. I guess my real worry is I can see she is enjoying the attention. I assume that is normal but I’m surprised by it happening so young. Should I say anything about the tightness of the clothes? She is my oldest DD. Please be kind. If you need more info ask away.

As someone who went through a parental figure criticizing me about my looks being too attractive I deeply suggest not to do it and instead to have a rav or her father speak to her about it. As men they impart the right values and can show her it’s not so nice.
The fact you have a great relationship with her is worth keeping your comments to yourself, so that when she does share, you can enable her to see the right way in a gentle tone that she might pick up and respect.
At the same time, she is young and still exploring the world, it takes time for someone like that to examine themselves and their relationship to Hashem deeply, in order to apply the laws of tznius from a place of honesty and sincerity, and not because “mommy and daddy” said so.
Maybe consider the community - if you are more MO, maybe switching to a different type of a community will be a more indirect move to possibly enable better growth.
There’s no better examples than your environment or a difficult situation, which makes one learn from it.

Bnei Berak 10

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 12:07 pm

Chayalle wrote:

ITA
If I may add that OP, you may buy her something tzniout that she likes and somewhat more expensive. When a parent shows in real life that it's worth to pay a bit more for a modest garment it makes a statement on your daughter Smile

amother

Poinsettia

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 12:09 pm

amother Poinsettia wrote:

I just want to add, sometimes there is nothing you can do but let it run it’s course. Better she should enjoy her self confidence than have a disciplinary experience about her body and image and resort to becoming g-d forbid off the derech, if you know what I mean. If she is going to a religious Torah aligned school, she will get the message from her teachers and Rabbis about tznius, in many ways. If a rav speaks to her in a nice way- it would be the best. Also you should buy books that cater to this topic, they are designed for that age. Again, this is a big part of exploring her identity, even though it’s only external, yet it’s a big deal for that age and should be respected. A gift as a book may be a really nice idea. You should daven for her to see tznius in a beautiful way and connect to Hashem. It’s okay if it takes time and it’s normal to go through this kind of course for ANY girl.

amother

Leaf

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 12:52 pm

I think the work is noticing what comes up for you. If you notice fear then support the part of you that’s afraid. The less scared you are the better off she will be. If you trust her she will learn to trust herself and then behave in a way that’s trustworthy. This means not over reacting out of fear to teenage behavior.

Also never underestimate your power as a role model. Especially in the big picture. We are okay if she behaves immature at this age because she is immature. All 13 year olds are. It’s normal. But if you behave in a modest way so will she - especially as she gets older.

And show her how proud you are of her. In all areas. Her personality, her looks, her talents. This will make her feel good about herself and support her in her development.

And then in a small way you can share your values. By paying more for modest clothes as others suggested. By explaining how you choose clothes. With an emphasis on positivity.

When I was a kid I never heard anything negative about tnius. My mother dressed tnius. She was too busy to micromanage me so I mostly dressed tnius but sometimes tried something out that didn’t really make sense. (Skirt too short, top too fitted) but through trial and error and a little neglect I figured it out with my self esteem in this area intact.

Wishing you a lot of nachas! You sound like a great mom!

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 1:02 pm

Rappel wrote:

If your kids are young, take it from someone with a teenage girl, your advice is not nice and will most probably backfire.
Girls dont always have the same style as their mothers. I never did. My daughter certainly does not.
Let her find her own sense of style.
This is not the hill to crawl up and die on. Trust me.

pause

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 1:11 pm

amother Poinsettia wrote:

Uch uch uch.
No way!

This should be a woman to woman discussion. Do not involve males here. Yuck!

amother

Turquoise

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 1:40 pm

Ok my perspective comes as someone who is now more yeshivish but grew up with a very modern upbringing and went to a coed school w plenty of friends who were boys. I will tell you my modern friends and I didnt care as much as some more yeshivish friends when noticed by a boy- because they were always around. Anyhow- I was a bit more of a "frummie" of the school but bh did well socially and was very open about things I took on- including being machmer on tznius, yichud and shomer negiah at 10. (Went to coed school in hs too). What I found spoke to me most were direct lines.
1. Negiah- being touched shouldnt be a senseless or thoughtless action. Save it to be something meaningful.
2. Tznius- if everyone is looking at you, it wont be special/noticeable when the person you want to is.

Basically no long shpiel or princess book. But just - you have choices that can shape future experiences and make things more meaningful. Dont let that go to waste.

Hope that makes sense.

amother

Mistyrose

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 1:46 pm

BH she is healthy, and is discovering her feminity!
So many points to bring up here.
As a start, I would focus on the following:
1) Catch her doing things right, so when she does wear the right thing, compliment her on it!
2) Compliment her on her physical beauty and also her emotional beauty, her middos.Both are important.
3) Educate her, Learn with her ,make it fun, with her favorite nosh.. Ex: Gila Manolson books. Knowledge is power.
4) (really is #1 Smile

) Daven that she make the right choices! There is nothing more powerful than a mother's Tefillos!

Hatzlacha, keep focusing on her good, and iyh it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

amother

Mulberry

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 2:04 pm

Mrs Insel from Shevach High School said to fill up the girls’ worlds with so much positive activities and confidence that they won’t need to look elsewhere to get the attention/confidence. Can you make sure that your daughter has a full schedule with extracurricular activities and even a babysitting/group leader job so that she is full of positive time filling activities and doesn’t need to waste her time on thinking about boys at age 13? Can you compliment her and give her a sense of identity and competence so that she’s not looking for one based on her looks?

amother

Poinsettia

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:02 pm

pause wrote:

Uch uch uch.
No way!

This should be a woman to woman discussion. Do not involve males here. Yuck!

Who are you to judge?
I made the best decision reaching out to a rav to guide me in shailos I had about tznius!
So judgmental. If not her mom then maybe a Rebbetzin, but not her mom imo. A rav can also be in the context of a class discussion, there is nothing wrong with that and it’s normal.
I don’t understand how it’s normalized to bring bedikas and talk shalom bayis issues with a rav but this is somehow unacceptable.
Also it’s important to note that the whole idea of tznius is from the Talmud and not from a woman