I'm extremely disappointed in our system

amother

Black

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 11:51 am

Look, I have a kid who dropped out and is currently otd in large part due to getting kicked out of yeshiva.

On the other hand, I work in a large community school that takes anyone, and it’s a MESS. It sounds so nice to say “take everyone” but it creates a very difficult reality when you have kids that have unfiltered internet at home and parents who aren’t very into yiddishkeit.

I see both sides.

amother

Diamond

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 11:53 am

amother OP wrote:

I have been through this very system myself, I have plenty of experience. I don't need to c"v experience this discrimination to feel pain for our children. Being a frum jew isn't about just looking out for yourself.

When one side is a child's right to chinuch, I don't care what arguments you can make. I don't care if the parents are axe murderers, every child deserves chinuch.

When you take on the role of being a principal/school administrator, etc.. you take on a lot of power and responsibility. And you have to be very careful.

You do understand that schools only have a certain amount of space and can only take a certain amount of students.....
(We applied to several schools. Didn't get in to any because of lack space, and we applied late. It was a bad feeling but we got over it. We got accepted to a newer school where people didn't want to send to, & couldn't be happier bh 12 years later. It's a huge school now with no space for new students. They're packed like sardines in their classrooms.)

amother

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 11:53 am

amother cornflower wrote:

So I agree with everything you wrote in theory, with the exception of this sentence.
I believe parents also have some responsibility not to apply to places that they know are likely not their standards and that they don't stand a chance. Too often I come a cross parents upset at the system hen they're trying to get their kids into the wrong school and get stuck on the rejection.

So push them into a school that's not their top choice! Just make sure you're not leaving them in the lurch and feeling worthless because they couldn't get in anywhere! Imagine if that was your child? The emotional damage alone could send a child off the deep end.

I definitely agree that everyone involved has to stop being so judgemental of everyone else and focus on the fact that this is a child's life we're talking about.

amother

Papaya

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 11:56 am

So schools are responsible to take everyone.
And schools are not allowed to kick kids out otherwise they get skewered.
But schools are also not capable of handling every situation, every child, every family, and cannot just stuff even more kids into classes and schools that are stuffed to the brim.

So why would anyone try to alleviate the situation and open a school. If once they open one, they're expected to accept everyone no matter what and handle everything no matter how complicated.

ChassidishMommy

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:01 pm

If someone opened or wants to open a school to fill this void, do you think claims like "you have an achrayus to make sure they're getting in somewhere else" would encourage or discourage them?

amother

Diamond

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:01 pm

amother Papaya wrote:

And people don't want to send to a school that accepts everyone!!!!
The schooling issue really is a 2 way street, but people like to blame the schools. They want the school of their choice to accept them, but not to accept their next door neighbor, or everyone else....

amother

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:03 pm

amother Papaya wrote:

I'm not claiming to have a solution. I'm just stating the problem.

The same dilemma exists with anyone who takes on a position of power. They are put under much more scrutiny, as they should be. They are judged more harshly in shamayim too!

Ema of 5

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:05 pm

amother Cobalt wrote:

The thing is in every area you can find one school willing to take every child. So my question is are you insisting on only going to certain schools? Are you part of the problem by saying the place that takes every child is not good enough for you?

No you can’t. Schools are literally busting at the seams, they don’t even have room to take siblings, forget about new students.
And to add to that, the place that DOES accept everyone (if that really does exist) can not really teach every student.

Last edited by Ema of 5 on Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

ChassidishMommy

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:05 pm

amother OP wrote:

This is turning into a PSA: never open a school.
Ah, no schools, no problems.

amother

cornflower

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:06 pm

amother OP wrote:

True that the problem exists, false that the hanhala of all these schools have an achrayus to make sure everyone gets in somewhere.

Ema of 5

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:11 pm

amother Diamond wrote:

OP, how can you be disappointed in a system you don't have experience with yourself? You only heard 1 side of the story, and of course that side will blame the schools.
But in reality, the parents are very much to blame as well with the schooling issue.
People only want to send to specific schools, but they don't want to follow the rules. They also don't want to send to schools that accept everyone. Children not being in school, is often the parents fault as well. They dug their own grave.

In reality, there are instances where it’s the parents, there are instances where it’s the school, and there are instances where it’s both.
(As an aside, I really think that if you are going to put the blame squarely on the parents and absolve the schools of their role, you should say it under your own name.)

Last edited by Ema of 5 on Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Papaya

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:12 pm

amother OP wrote:

We are not shamayim.
We can also understand that this harshness and scrutiny serves a tremendous disservice by dissuading talented people who may be able to work with specific populations from opening schools because they can't help EVERYONE.

There's a massive shortage of schools everywhere thanks to bh the tremendous growth

If you have a man whos talented and skilled with average and above average boys but knows himself and isn't effective with below average boys.
Isn't it detrimental to the community to tell him to take everyone or don't bother opening at all? So he doesn't open and now there are 40 boys without a school.
Isn't it better as a community for him to open and take 28. And for those 28 to thrive.
And then someone else work on finding a system for the rest.

Obviously im being simplistic.

Unigala

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:12 pm

I dont think realistically that every school can accept any person that comes their way.

I think that the 'why' and 'how' people are rejected is more of an issue.

and again - while there are very well meaning school administrations they may still be held responsible for the pain of another.. thats a fact.

amother

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:15 pm

ChassidishMommy wrote:

This is turning into a PSA: never open a school.
Ah, no schools, no problems.

That's definitely putting words in my mouth. I'm just criticizing the system, not saying the system shouldn't exist at all. It's definitely a vent. I'm not proposing a coherent solution

amother

Lemon

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:18 pm

amother cornflower wrote:

And what about the parents that ARENT applying to schools where they really don’t fit in? I have two kids who weren’t accepted into local schools. One was going into kindergarten and one was going into 7th grade. Do you know why? I don’t. We don’t live in a place where “the school is not for us.” There’s only one school like that here, and we didn’t apply there.
The point of this thread, I think, was to bring attention to the role that schools play, and to stop always blaming the parents. Why is the first thing always to blame the parents?

amother

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:19 pm

amother cornflower wrote:

True that the problem exists, false that the hanhala of all these schools have an achrayus to make sure everyone gets in somewhere.

Not challenging your claim, just genuinely curious who should be held responsible if not the schools? Does anyone have an idea or are we all just pointing fingers (that's ok too 🙃)

amother

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:21 pm

amother Lemon wrote:

Yes! Why? The only thing they did wrong was have children.

(Wait.. I thought having a lot of children was encouraged in the frum system..? 😆)

Ema of 5

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:22 pm

amother cornflower wrote:

True that the problem exists, false that the hanhala of all these schools have an achrayus to make sure everyone gets in somewhere.

Why not? If someone applies to your school and your response is “no” why don’t you have an achrayus to make sure they have a place to go? Or at least to give them other options?

ChassidishMommy

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:22 pm

amother OP wrote:

That's definitely putting words in my mouth. I'm just criticizing the system, not saying the system shouldn't exist at all. It's definitely a vent. I'm not proposing a coherent solution

And I didn't say that you said the system shouldn't exists. I said your finger pointing will, if anything, turn motivated people off, thus the system won't exist.
Nobody wants to be judged harshly, either by humans or in shamayim. And nobody wants to take on the achrayus of every single person who reaches out to them. Why bother?