I'm extremely disappointed in our system

amother

Poinsettia

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:23 pm

Yes I'm also disappointed in the system. I can't talk about other towns but I live in Lakewood.
When it was time for my girls to go to high school we went to the one we were accepted to. I didn't want to be the family with a girl sitting at home left with no school. Some people will tell you it's an excellent school and some of my girls even did very well there. I wasn't and I'm still not confortable with some aspect of the school.
(My girls are A+ students with amazing middos. I'm not bragging that's what I'm told at every single pta from primary till 8th grade!)
But I didn't have a choice in where to send because schools pick who they're taking and that's where you have to go.
Unless you have lots ot protekzia or lots of money or both.
I dk what the solution is. What I know is that it's not pretty and not a good atmosphere for our kids to grow up in.

amother

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:26 pm

ChassidishMommy wrote:

And I didn't say that you said the system shouldn't exists. I said your finger pointing will, if anything, turn motivated people off, thus the system won't exist.
Nobody wants to be judged harshly, either by humans or in shamayim. And nobody wants to take on the achrayus of every single person who reaches out to them. Why bother?

If they didn't want to, why did they?? We're on the same page. But now that they chose to they have to understand the power they possess and be very very careful.

amother

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:26 pm

amother Poinsettia wrote:

Hugs

amother

Diamond

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:29 pm

amother Poinsettia wrote:

So your attitude is part of the problem as well. Your kids got in to a school, a good school, they did well. But because it wasn't the school you wanted to get in to, then you blame the system......

amother

Diamond

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:30 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

Why not? If someone applies to your school and your response is “no” why don’t you have an achrayus to make sure they have a place to go? Or at least to give them other options?

Because finding a school for their children, is the parents responsibility.

amother

Diamond

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:32 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

In reality, there are instances where it’s the parents, there are instances where it’s the school, and there are instances where it’s both.
(As an aside, I really think that if you are going to put the blame squarely on the parents and absolve the schools of their role, you should say it under your own name.)

I did not say that only parents are to blame! I said that it's a 2 way street. Both the parents & the schools are part of the problem.

amother

cornflower

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:35 pm

amother Diamond wrote:

Because finding a school for their children, is the parents responsibility.

Yes. Schools aren't a barter system where they trade kids for other " better" kids. You tried your luck, didn't get in, now onward.
I do think that the vaad that helps with placements are the ones not doing their jobs and I'm not sure who's at fault there.

amother

Violet

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:38 pm

amother OP wrote:

If they didn't want to, why did they?? We're on the same page. But now that they chose to they have to understand the power they possess and be very very careful.

Accepting kids from homes where the kid is exposed to lots of not good stuff is also an achrayus for the other innocent kids in the school. It goes both ways. It's a huge achrayis either way, whether for the individual who "doesn't belong" or the rest of the kids who would be exposed.

amother

Olive

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:39 pm

I think parents and administrators alike have lost sight of the goal. The goal is for children to learn. The goal shouldn’t monetary, personal or to inflate anyone’s ego. It should be about the wellbeing of the child and what the best place is for them.

As an aside:

I moved to Lakewood recently, not by choice but due to life circumstances. We weren’t accepted to a school we applied to that was lower than our standards for the stupidest reasons.

amother

Violet

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:41 pm

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

Monsey does not have that.

Monsey does and I will not name them because all the mothers who send there will come out with swinging arms to let me know that no, their school is not a place where all the she'ar yerakos end up, that it's davka a small school that they WANTED to send to yadayada...

amother

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:42 pm

amother Diamond wrote:

So your attitude is part of the problem as well. Your kids got in to a school, a good school, they did well. But because it wasn't the school you wanted to get in to, then you blame the system......

But why should it be so competitive to begin with? People get so burnt along the way. Why does it become about status and protektzia?? Why are we so entrenched in gashmius when it comes to choosing chinuch?

amother

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:45 pm

amother Olive wrote:

Yes!!

amother

Papaya

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:54 pm

amother OP wrote:

A lot of it is just the reality.
I send to a certain school that is "hard to get into" and kind of exclusive.
Im not at all exclusive.
I sent there in its 3rd year, took a gamble.
The school has since developed a name because they were extremely successful. They hired amazing teachers, top-notch principals and have had tremendous Siyata Dishmaya and are known to be an amazing school
They get hundreds of applications because people want to send.
Part of their success is keeping the classes to a certain size and not opening more parallel classes until they have certain things established.
So they end up rejecting dozens of kids each year.
When people hear that I send there, they're all like pshsh wow. I don't care about the prestige. I care about the product that they provide.

My daughter wanted to go to a certain high school where all her friends were going. Except her friends all have older sisters who went there so they got in easily. We couldn't get in because they are so much harder to get in.
So we went to a less established place, and she had a great experience.

Its not about prestige or exclusivity or gashmios.
So many times its about physical space after they take siblings and staff.

amother

Bronze

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 12:59 pm

amother OP wrote:

Schools cannot accept everyone. I’m sure you would rather they use a lottery system instead but the schools are entitled to decide how to give out their slots. The fact is that your kids have a school to go to and it’s really not right to blame “the system” for not giving you a preferred choice, when in fact you’re judging the school who took you in.

This kind of attitude really gets to me. Your kids have a school to attend, and it’s probably more enjoyable than the school I went to, which was an out of town day school with kids from every stripe of Jewish life and where I stuck out like a sore thumb.

No one is obligated to give you what you want. They need to make sure your kids have a frum school to attend. Which they do.

amother

Nemesia

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 1:02 pm

OP, I agree with you 1,000%.

When we were applying for a high school for one of my daughters we were told by the school that the school that they thought was best for her and that she had a chance of getting into had heard rumors about her.
It took months until we figured out that the school had called a girl in her class whose sisters had attended that High School. The girl was special needs and had needed a shadow her entire Elementary School- which already made me question why a high school would be relying on her for information!!! And she obviously did not have the sense or nuance to answer no to things she wasn't sure about and instead, responded to certain questions by saying I'm not sure, its possible, and the school which obviously also has problems took that as a 100% yes.

Ty Hashem, we had applied to multiple schools and it turned out someone we knew well had a really good connection to a totally different School we had applied to and they made one call and she got in and she's so happy. Apparently that school did not feel the need to call random children and ask them questions and base acceptance on their answers.

But until today, I think, really??

amother

Bronze

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 1:02 pm

amother Blue wrote:

There was a school created in Lakewood for just this purpose, Ohr Devora. You can read the description on their current campaign page. It is a wonderful school, I send my girls there.

Part of their description:

"The new school, named Ohr Devorah, would provide every girl with a place to be herself, even if her family may be labeled by others as ‘out of the box.’ If she and her family are growth-oriented, have a rov, and are shomer Torah umitzvos, she will be welcome and find herself at home in this school. Parents and daughters would be able to come to an interview without feeling judged, and leave with the knowledge that they’ve finally found their place."

https://dryveup.com/notebynote/

I was going to mention ohr devorah. I know a few people who send. Really nice families but they are not yeshivish. They are definitely more frum than my old classmates were. They dress tznius etc.

If I had been able to attend such a school when I lived out of town, I would have been thrilled.

amother

Olive

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 1:09 pm

amother Bronze wrote:

I do want to point out that it is very diverse. Most mothers don’t wear wigs.

I believe it’s not the same as saying the mothers wear a lace wig.

It’s an excellent school and a great place for all of the girls. I have very close family member in the school and she’s thriving. But for some people this is a line they wouldn’t cross.

ectomorph

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 1:21 pm

Op- I'm grateful my children attend a chabad kiruv school that is accepting of everyone, and I mean literally everyone.

They value every student and are always trying to show the students how sweet Yiddishkeit is. Maybe my kids aren't getting as much of a classic frum experience, but they come home excited about Shabbos and yom tov.

They are still very little, so I'm glad they're enjoying school, I haven't figured out their entire future yet.

Ema of 5

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 1:25 pm

amother Diamond wrote:

Because finding a school for their children, is the parents responsibility.

And they are doing that, by going to xxx school. So if xxx school says no, should they not give other suggestions? Or at least a reason? So that parents know where to turn or why they weren’t accepted?

amother

Papaya

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 1:25 pm

ectomorph wrote:

Can I ask you a serious question.
What would your Chabad school do is 350 kids applied to the 1st grade in one year?
Would they accept everyone?