Complete independence for 18 year old

nicejewishgal

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:31 pm

Genius wrote:

These details make a very big difference. We're discussing an eighteen year old who's presumably quite sheltered, boarding a plane right off her 12th grade school bus here. Not the same at all.

just wondering. what makes the situation different here?

amother

Lavender

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:38 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

just wondering. what makes the situation different here?

The difference is that the girls started traveling when they were a bit older then 18, started out close to home & became experienced in travel before embarking on a journey to a foreign country further from home.
That's the responsible way to do it.
A frum sheltered girl is not ready to travel by themselves to a foreign country, right when they graduate school. I don't understand how you fail to realize this.

Genius

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:38 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

just wondering. what makes the situation different here?

Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you have no life experience? Moms of eighteen year olds understand that they are not on the same level in seichel hayasher and life experience as their daughters, which is a concept you don't seem to understand on this thread.

nicejewishgal

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:39 pm

Genius wrote:

no funny was asking why it's a diff situation when the other posters daughters travelled on their own.

Chayalle

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:41 pm

Genius wrote:

These details make a very big difference. We're discussing an eighteen year old who's presumably quite sheltered, boarding a plane right off her 12th grade school bus here. Not the same at all.

I do think 18 is a bit young...when my girls were travelling, it was paying their own way, which came with work experience, which also gives girls a little exposure to the world out there, and contributes to a certain growth and know-how.

But I don't understand the fear of having girls sleep in a hotel...BH my girls have slept in quite a few with no issues.

Genius

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:42 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

no funny was asking why it's a diff situation when the other posters daughters travelled on their own.

Someone upthread answered that. My comment was on the thread in general. You keep asking why things would be ok for you and not your daughter and stuff like that. Most 40 year olds get that because they've been alive for a while.

Genius

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:43 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I don't think the hotel is the issue here.

nicejewishgal

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:47 pm

Genius wrote:

I do not think 18 yr olds are comparable to 40 yr olds in terms of life experience. I am saying however, that a mature, settled, responsible, and capable adult can no less protect themselves than their moms. would they generally make stupider choices in a moment of not thinking? maybe. but when it comes to safety, she's mature enough to know what to do.

I am however still doubtful whether I should let her go or not. I rly don't know anymore

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:52 pm

Wow I find the comments on here so interesting.

In general I would think that of course an 18 year is old enough to travel with friends. I'm sure there are many amothers here who were actually married at that age.

I would understand feeling that maybe the venue isn't appropriate (not saying Iceland, but in general) or that maybe in the current climate it's less safe for Jewish girls to be travelling themselves.

I find it interesting that so many think she isn't old enough.

kenz

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:54 pm

I would allow an 18 year old to fly alone or with a friend to a destinations where she would be staying with or at least near friends or relatives. I don’t think I would want her to go to an exotic destination with no one familiar just yet. Even if she’s technically an adult, it’s been like 5 minutes…

amother

Caramel

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:55 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

Why do you have doubts? What are you concerns?

Genius

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:58 pm

amother Amaranthus wrote:

Don't mean to derail very interesting topic, just in regards to kids (actually ppl, of any age) knowing what to do in danger, what would any of you be referring to? I'm thinking self- defense & pepper spray, what else?

Notice the danger, understand the danger and avoid the danger perhaps.

amother

Lavender

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:59 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

In the UK it's very common for girls to travel to Israel after finishing school and that's at age 16.

Seems to be common there. (I live in Israel now, but I guess this is why I'm surprised everyone thinks 18 is too young.)

Traveling to Israel is very different than Traveling to a foreign country with no jewish presence.

amother

Lavender

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:03 pm

If a girl doesn't have experience with the outside world, there's no difference between age 15 & 18. They're both at the same stage in life. It's equally irresponsible for both to travel to a foreign country by themselves without any experience with the world & travel.

nicejewishgal

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:08 pm

amother Caramel wrote:

Why do you have doubts? What are you concerns?

so I know she's trustworthy, responsible, smart, and knowledgeable. she's travelled in the past, although this will be her first time going herself to a place with limited Jewish infrastructure. I know she wouldn't do anything too risky or dangerous.

but on the other hand, with everyone on here saying she's too young, I'm starting to doubt myself. I'm sure the wonderful Imas here aren't just trying to deprive or limit their kids' independence. I'm sure y'all have reasons not to allow your kids to go. and yes, there are cases in which immature kids get themselves into trouble. don't think my daughter would. am I putting to much faith in her? don't thinks so rly... I wouldn't let her go to an unsafe place and I know Iceland is fairly safe.

so I think she's mature enough to go but I got a bit scared to be honest. (DD's pretty attractive... think that's problematic?.....)

amother

Junglegreen

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:11 pm

amother Lavender wrote:

Traveling to Israel is very different than Traveling to a foreign country with no jewish presence.

In what way? I thought we were talking about safety? Also, in many circles of your circles don’t 18/19 year olds get married??

I started traveling alone with friends during my senior year of HS, then during seminary we traveled all over the place.

amother

Tulip

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:12 pm

You have to know your kid. At 18, some are barely equipped to take the subway by themselves while others are street-smart and savvy. 18 is awfully young, especially for frum girls who tend to be more sheltered and naive than the average teen, but as you say your dd is already a seasoned solo traveler, I assume she is, on the contrary, more savvy than most.

The limited Jewish infrastructure is not as big a problem as you think. Unlike your ds, your dd can daven without a minyan, and unlike her married sister, she doesn't need access to a mikvah. The biggest issues otherwise are Shabbat and kosher food, but as these are issues for all travelers regardless of age or gender, that's not an argument against her going at age 18. There is a Jewish community in Iceland, tiny though it may be, and there is a Chabad.

Your dd will need to learn, if she hasn't already, the halachot of what kinds of food may be eaten where, unless she's able to bring enough provisions for the duration of her trip. In some cases it is permissible to buy bread from a nonJewish baker, where bread is made solely from flour, water and yeast and is baked on an ungreased surface in a dedicated oven. AYLOR. She can survive quite well on water and dried fruits and nuts for a few days if she's far from a source of fresh produce. She may even want to try catching a fish in a stream and cooking it for supper.

PS: Have a look at https://www.jewishiceland.com/

keym

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:14 pm

amother Junglegreen wrote:

I have a daughter in the 18 year old/high school range.
I consider traveling to be a process.
-Start with letting her travel interstate alone to family.
-Then international to family. (Traveling alone to visit family in Israel is perfect).
-Then traveling to Israel with friends, making her own itinerary.
-Then international to a country with a very strong Jewish infrastructure. Lots of shops and restaurants. And able to find connections. (England, Switzerland, Belgium, etc).
-Then international with limited Jewish Infrastructures.

It's a process. And it needs to be done in stages