Sad about daughter’s hair covering choices

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 12:05 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

It will pass.

In a year or a year and a half she will be a completely different person. This is a bit of "girl" still left over from becoming "woman." Baby stuff.

She has been through a huge life change: getting married. She is feeling hemmed in. This is the least harmful thing her unconscious mind could think of.

Say nothing at all. It WILL pass. But not quickly.

When she moves away from your orbit, and moves among the nice looking women of her husband's circle, slowly she will get the point from looking at how much better the other women look, with their beautiful wigs and scarves.

You can only back off and wait.

Nobody can say 100% for certain it will pass. It may, but it may not.

amother

Blush

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 1:19 pm

amother Anemone wrote:

Op I understand it hurts you. The problem with your daughter uncovering some of her hair is that it’s not a choice of head covering like her deciding to wear a mitpachat instead of a sheitel or your son wearing a kippa and getting rid of the hat or shtreimel. Uncovering hair feels a lot worse because you know a married woman’s hair needs to be covered. It’s still your daughter’s choice though.
You had years to raise your daughter in your home. Now the years of guidance and instruction are over. She has a husband and they’re going to find their way. Your interference isn’t needed or appreciated in the home of your adult offspring. They’re in their own nest.
You can still be their loving mother, mother in law and hopefully grandmother. You can dispense love, gifts, hugs, cash, and pans of whatever their favorite foods are. Before you offer any of that, give them the gift of your silence. You can cry your pain into your Tehillim if your daughter makes choices that hurt your heart. That will help you be ready with a warm smile and a hug when you see her.

wow! This is so new to me. My friends and I were always told in a nice way when our shaitels got longer etc... It kept us in check. We understood this was being dispensed with the all those delicous pans of food... Did we love it no, but relationships continued
I don't know how parents today do it, Just to keep giving and giving and ecpect zero in return...

amother

Winterberry

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 1:21 pm

amother Blush wrote:

Who told you when your wig was long?

amother

Seafoam

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 1:37 pm

amother Blush wrote:

Why does an adult need to be kept in check by their parents? And correct, you should not expect anything in return from your child except basic respect and kavod. They are not your nachas machine.

amother

Hawthorn

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 1:38 pm

amother Blush wrote:

Some communities must be different. It is not for anyone to comment on the way I dress or choose to cover my hair. Thats my choice. If my mother would comment on the length of my sheitel I would think they were very socially off. Im yeshivish lite

amother

Quince

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 1:53 pm

amother Winterberry wrote:

Who told you when your wig was long?

different amother but I have been told twice by my father (a message from my mother) that my wig was too long. You'd laugh hysterically if you'd see me.

When I got married my mother forced me to cut my wig to shoulder length. I couldn't handle it. I looked hideous. she just has a huge image to portray and looks at her kids like her nachas machine.
so 3 years later, when I finally had the money, I lengthened my wig by 2 inches. they are still very short by most yeshivish standards but when I did that my parents made sure to comment to me twice. (don't worry, I did nothing about it)

and when I wore my snood behind my ears and my sideburns showed a bit, I got a phone call from my mom that she's been crying herself to sleep for weeks because her daughter isn't fully covering her hair.

eventually I took it upon myself, and boy is it hard for me. but I do it. because I want to. I don't want to say its because my mom forced me to.

parents should NOT be telling their children these things once they are married. sorry.

amother

Seafoam

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 1:54 pm

amother Quince wrote:

Your parents behavior is inappropriate at best and I'd even argue you toxic. That is not normal.

amother

Lemon

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 2:05 pm

amother Blush wrote:

I am not yeshivish, but I am from a culture where it is normal for parents to feel entitled to give lots of unsolicited advice and opinions to adult children. Not just to young married children, but to children in their 50's and 60's. Stuff that would make many imamothers cringe. Most children know how to have a thick skin and do what they want regardless. I agree, it doesn't have to ruin relationships if there is a certain kind of context.

But if OP's children don't have that kind of background and norms, it could harm the relationship. I trust that if OP is keeping her thoughts to herself, she probably has good reason for doing so.

amother

Hyssop

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 2:19 pm

I would talk to your rav just about how you should feel. Because I have a feeling it's a fall with hair showing in the front and maybe a tichel with hair showing in front and on the sides. Or a kippa fall. The way I picture half covering is a mitapachat around the head with almost all the hair showing. I can't see that flying if none of her friends cover like that.

If it's what I think, I wonder if a rav can help you make peace with it because halachically it could be Ok. Just not a standard that you personally hold it.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 2:39 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

I'd be disappointed too. But I would like to think I could also pull back and look at the bigger picture: she's healthy, she's happy, she's married, she's still shomer mitzvot. Give love and acceptance and who knows what tomorrow will bring. Sometimes people take a step or two down, but sometimes they step back up again too. Either way, she's okay and you will be too. Smile

As the mother of older singles I have to agree with this.
My kids are becoming less frum as they age and are still single
One kid has decided he's not frum anymore.
I know noone here will believe me but we're really regular normal frum parents- nothing in my wildest dreams would have prepared me for the extraordinary pain my children are causing me.
Be sad OP, but be grateful she's married and frum- believe me it could be much much worse.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 2:42 pm

amother Blush wrote:

Thanks for saying that- when I say I am disappointed or hurt that my son is no longer frum or that my daughter dresses terribly untznius I am told by my children to be grateful they're nice people with good middot and to let them live their lives.
I can't stop crying

amother

Scarlet

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 2:47 pm

amother Blush wrote:

Omg.
I know I sound juvenile but if my parent would tell me that my wig got too long it would have the opposite effect of "keeping me in check"...

Chinuch ends at 16, 17 ,18 or whatever particular young age you believe it does.
You certainly don't try to keep your children in check after they're married.
I know a 60 year old that is still afraid of her mother's opinion about her shaving. That's very sad.

Chayalle

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 3:20 pm

amother Cerulean wrote:

You are definitely allowed to feel hurt and disappointed, but perhaps your children are the wrong audience for your pain.

amother

DarkMagenta

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 4:08 pm

amother Hawthorn wrote:

Maybe this a generational shift (not sure if you are older/younger) but I definitely have seen a shift in the past 15 years or so, and even see it here on ima, where people think that anyone making any comment about one's personal appearance is wrong and intrusive.

I definitely don't think a stranger should be commenting on someone's appearance. And I don't think anyone should comment about someone's weight gain or loss... But I was taught that we have a responsibility to support others in their mitzvos, including honest conversation if a mitzva isn't being adhered to, and I was taught that in regard to tznius and hair covering (specifically) that discussion had to come from another female, who was a close friend or family member. In other words, it is mom or a close friend's RESPONSIBILITY to help her in tznius.

The daughter having hair partially uncovered is not the norm in their community, as OP explained. I believe she said that no one does that... so it is a very clear statement to the community (whether daughter intends it as such, or not).

I actually find it surprising that a mother would 1) shop (and presumably purchase) shietels, 2) all close women relatives are covering fully, and 3) husband is in kollel... yet when she started partially covering mom DIDN'T her about it to see if everything was okay? She could be having headaches, hair loss, etc. Maybe the husband DID push for it (who knows) and she actually feels terrible about it and wants to cover fully. Maybe she is struggling with Yiddishkeit or the new marriage and WANTS someone to talk to about it with advice for the adjustment to married life....

Why is even talking about it not okay? It is not overbearing to gently ask what is up.

amother

Tanzanite

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 4:22 pm

This topic definitely brings up memories. I was a young yeshivish 18 year old girl when I got married, with a wig maybe 2 or 3 inches past shoulder length. Not short ,but definitely not long . I was sitting at my sheva brachos and my aunt comes over to me and says' "do you wear your wig down? I said sometimes , this is a pony sheital. Then she says " it's so long . And then she said and ur shabbos sheital it's really long ! With a pained expression she says but your a bais yaakov girl !! This was in front of my then husband. I felt like I was punched in the stomach. And that's not it. Later in the evening ,she comes over to me again and points to a rebetzin. She says do you see that rebetzin? She's so tznius and classy! For the record I was as yeshivish as you could get .

shevi82

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 4:36 pm

amother Scarlet wrote:

Actually Rav Shlomo Wolbe writes the Chinuch is untill age 24.
Young adults can use advice and reminders, it dosen't make their parents "toxic" and "unbearable".

amother

Saddlebrown

Wed, Mar 13 2024, 4:42 pm

I have a different perspective to most people here.

You do not have to bottle up your feelings, and if you do, it is likely they will explode in a way that you have no control over. It is possible that one day you will say something that will make her realize how hurt you were and how your loving attitude to her was always covering a layer of hurt, making her doubt your relationship forever.

I would advise you to find a time to say something to her. Say it, say it once, and tell her you don't plan on discussing it again. Just tell her that it's on your mind and you want to say it once. And then, LEAVE IT ALONE forever.

Don't have fake relationship with your daughter, that is truly toxic.