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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Manners & Etiquette
Anonymiss 1
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 Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:14 pm
| amother Lemon wrote: | No it's not each woman for themselves. It's just not. Would you like it if someone offered yours more money and she suddenly left you high and dry?? Of course she won't tell you why, they are way too clever....either her grandmother 'suddenly died' or her father 'had a fire' and she has to rescue him...
They know their value and play the game very well. But let's not stoop to their level. |
The tone of this post (and amother light green) is really upsetting. You’re talking about people as if they’re less than.
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amother
cornflower
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:15 pm
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Amother lightgreen, I reported you. What a rude comment to make.
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amother
OP
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:15 pm
| Peersupport wrote: | I don't think asking a cleaning lady to come for more hours is stealing if you don't know her schedule.
The problem is offering more money, or stopping a cleaning lady that you see leaving a neighbors house.
You can't help that they are not always honest.
We can only be honest ourselves.
The only thing that helps your cleaning lady show up is tefillah.
(And telling her that you will pay her the remaining balance next time  ) |
If she works by you part time, then her schedule is most like filled with working for others. So yes, if you ask her to come for more hours, it generally means that someone else is staying without help.
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Peersupport
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:18 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | If she works by you part time, then her schedule is most like filled with working for others. So yes, if you ask her to come for more hours, it generally means that someone else is staying without help. |
Not necessarily. And if you aren't offering more money than there is no incentive for her to lie.
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mizle10
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:20 pm
Curious what people think about this.
I live in Canada, my cleaning lady is a legal employee. I pay her tax deductions, legal holidays, sick leave, and 2 weeks paid vacation. She's by me 40 hours a week. One year she went to my neighbour for a week when I was out of town. My neighbour asker her if she would work for her on Sundays for cash. Honestly, it annoyed me because before that if YT fell out on a Sunday she used to come to me but now I would be taking her away from my neighbor.
I'm going out of town for 2.5 weeks for pesach and want to bring my cleaning help with me. However, I know if I do she will be missing 3 Sundays at my neighbour. Can I bring her along?
She's employed by me for close to 5 years, and I pay her over $700/week. I'm her legal employer.
Side point, if she doesn't come with me I need to pay her for those weeks regardless.
Am I "stealing someone's cleaning help"?
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amother
Lawngreen
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:23 pm
| Anonymiss 1 wrote: | | The tone of this post (and amother light green) is really upsetting. You’re talking about people as if they’re less than. |
Of course. Forgive me for forgetting, no judgement on imamother. We don’t put down anyone no matter what they do.
Sorry if that’s not how I see things.
I wouldn’t call out anyone by name or judge a person without knowing everything going on in her life.
We’re not talking about any specific person here. We’re discussing a behavior that hurts others. In a normal world we can call that unacceptable.
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watergirl
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:23 pm
| mizle10 wrote: | Curious what people think about this.
I live in Canada, my cleaning lady is a legal employee. I pay her tax deductions, legal holidays, sick leave, and 2 weeks paid vacation. She's by me 40 hours a week. One year she went to my neighbour for a week when I was out of town. My neighbour asker her if she would work for her on Sundays for cash. Honestly, it annoyed me because before that if YT fell out on a Sunday she used to come to me but now I would be taking her away from my neighbor.
I'm going out of town for 2.5 weeks for pesach and want to bring my cleaning help with me. However, I know if I do she will be missing 3 Sundays at my neighbour. Can I bring her along?
She's employed by me for close to 5 years, and I pay her over $700/week. I'm her legal employer.
Side point, if she doesn't come with me I need to pay her for those weeks regardless.
Am I "stealing someone's cleaning help"? |
With all due respect, you are kind of writing this as if she is your property. Does she want to join you while you are away? What will she do the rest of the week aside for the 40 hours you pay her for?
What if you ask your neighbor what her plans are for those Sundays? Then ask your employee if she'd like to join you.
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mizle10
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:25 pm
| watergirl wrote: | With all due respect, you are kind of writing this as if she is your property. Does she want to join you while you are away? What will she do the rest of the week aside for the 40 hours you pay her for?
What if you ask your neighbor what her plans are for those Sundays? Then ask your employee if she'd like to join you. |
I don't think she's my property, I think she's a valued employee that me and my kids have an excellent relationship with. She very much does want to travel with us.
I'm travelling for pesach, I know what my neighbours plans are:) Cooking, cleaning and hosting
Last edited by mizle10 on Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
OP
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:26 pm
| mizle10 wrote: | Curious what people think about this.
I live in Canada, my cleaning lady is a legal employee. I pay her tax deductions, legal holidays, sick leave, and 2 weeks paid vacation. She's by me 40 hours a week. One year she went to my neighbour for a week when I was out of town. My neighbour asker her if she would work for her on Sundays for cash. Honestly, it annoyed me because before that if YT fell out on a Sunday she used to come to me but now I would be taking her away from my neighbor.
I'm going out of town for 2.5 weeks for pesach and want to bring my cleaning help with me. However, I know if I do she will be missing 3 Sundays at my neighbour. Can I bring her along?
She's employed by me for close to 5 years, and I pay her over $700/week. I'm her legal employer.
Side point, if she doesn't come with me I need to pay her for those weeks regardless.
Am I "stealing someone's cleaning help"? |
Maybe discuss it with your neighbor, give her a heads up about your plans.
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watergirl
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:26 pm
| mizle10 wrote: | I don't think she's my property, I think she's a valued employee that me and my kids have an excellent relationship with. She very much does want to travel with us.
I'm travelling for pesach, I know what my neighbours plans are:) Cooking, cleaning and hosting |
BH I misunderstood you.
Why not ask your neighbor what her plans are? Then go from there?
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amother
OP
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:27 pm
| mizle10 wrote: | I don't think she's my property, I think she's a valued employee that me and my kids have an excellent relationship with. She very much does want to travel with us.
I'm travelling for pesach, I know what my neighbours plans are:) Cooking, cleaning and hosting |
In this case, I'd tell the neighbour your plans enough in advance, and the cleaning lady should also tell the neighbour her plans.
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amother
Aconite
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:46 pm
| amother DarkGray wrote: | | Each women for herself. If I can offer her more hours which is more money it’s best for her to come to me why is it only about you? You can also up ur hours |
Wow. Just wow. Selfish at it’s best.
Maybe you’re the one that took my cleaning lady from me
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amother
Ultramarine
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 2:58 pm
| mizle10 wrote: | Curious what people think about this.
I live in Canada, my cleaning lady is a legal employee. I pay her tax deductions, legal holidays, sick leave, and 2 weeks paid vacation. She's by me 40 hours a week. One year she went to my neighbour for a week when I was out of town. My neighbour asker her if she would work for her on Sundays for cash. Honestly, it annoyed me because before that if YT fell out on a Sunday she used to come to me but now I would be taking her away from my neighbor.
I'm going out of town for 2.5 weeks for pesach and want to bring my cleaning help with me. However, I know if I do she will be missing 3 Sundays at my neighbour. Can I bring her along?
She's employed by me for close to 5 years, and I pay her over $700/week. I'm her legal employer.
Side point, if she doesn't come with me I need to pay her for those weeks regardless.
Am I "stealing someone's cleaning help"? |
I think you can. It's not "stealing" her cleaning help, but at the same time it is making her cleaning help not available for her, and the mentschlich thing is to communicate with your neighbor about it, and act apologetic. I think you are entitled to have her join you and it is different than the other situations being spoken about where one woman cleans a few hours in 10 different homes.
Also, to the person who said it is fair to ask for more hours as long as you are not offering more pay - there is certainly a difference to the cleaning person, and yes it is usually easier to do more hours in one home. Besides the possible travel between homes, the more hours she stays in one home, in general the work starts to get lighter. Think of how somone who only has cleaning help 2-4 hours a week has their help doing the heaviest, hardest cleaning in that time. Versus someone who has 4-6 hours a day, their cleaning help will likely be also doing much ligher, easier things like laundry and dishes. True that pesach time this may be less true than usual, but she may not realize that when you offer. So no, it is not the same difference and it is possible she may drop someone else by you asking for more hours.
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groovy1224
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 3:02 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | If she works by you part time, then her schedule is most like filled with working for others. So yes, if you ask her to come for more hours, it generally means that someone else is staying without help. |
So by this logic, no one can ever ask their cleaning help if they're available for more hours? I think that's a little extreme.
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amother
Cerise
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 3:06 pm
| amother Lightgreen wrote: | In which communities do people stop cleaning ladies they see on the street?
Can you really recognize your friend/sister/neighbor's cleaning lady if you see her on the street? |
In a large crowd of friends maybe not but if she’s walking alone yeah why not
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amother
Cerise
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 3:09 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | If she works by you part time, then her schedule is most like filled with working for others. So yes, if you ask her to come for more hours, it generally means that someone else is staying without help. |
Why what if they come to you after hours? I had one that worked from 6-10 pm before pesach. So why shouldn’t I get to hire her for some of those hours?
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amother
Wallflower
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 3:13 pm
Maybe I think Hashem cares more about the crumbs in my outlet than about the mitzvas of Ben Adam L’chavero-whether I mess over my neighbors erev YT or my help when Pesach is over and I no longer want the hours.
I am getting myself to Gan Eden irrelevant of whom I need to steam-roll to get there.
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amother
Wallflower
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 3:23 pm
| mizle10 wrote: | Curious what people think about this.
I live in Canada, my cleaning lady is a legal employee. I pay her tax deductions, legal holidays, sick leave, and 2 weeks paid vacation. She's by me 40 hours a week. One year she went to my neighbour for a week when I was out of town. My neighbour asker her if she would work for her on Sundays for cash. Honestly, it annoyed me because before that if YT fell out on a Sunday she used to come to me but now I would be taking her away from my neighbor.
I'm going out of town for 2.5 weeks for pesach and want to bring my cleaning help with me. However, I know if I do she will be missing 3 Sundays at my neighbour. Can I bring her along?
She's employed by me for close to 5 years, and I pay her over $700/week. I'm her legal employer.
Side point, if she doesn't come with me I need to pay her for those weeks regardless.
Am I "stealing someone's cleaning help"? |
You are not stealing her help, but what day are you leaving? Is it possible that being you are away for pesach that maybe she could go to your neighbor the Tuesday and Thursday before? (I also assume that being you’re going away for Pesach, some of the Sundays she is missing, are not before Pesach but rather during. I know I need my help mostly before, during I can figure out.)
You don’t need to, but in my opinion, it would be a reasonable compromise and help your neighbor without messing up your ability to go away.
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amother
Chestnut
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 3:25 pm
| amother Ultramarine wrote: | I think you can. It's not "stealing" her cleaning help, but at the same time it is making her cleaning help not available for her, and the mentschlich thing is to communicate with your neighbor about it, and act apologetic. I think you are entitled to have her join you and it is different than the other situations being spoken about where one woman cleans a few hours in 10 different homes.
Also, to the person who said it is fair to ask for more hours as long as you are not offering more pay - there is certainly a difference to the cleaning person, and yes it is usually easier to do more hours in one home. Besides the possible travel between homes, the more hours she stays in one home, in general the work starts to get lighter. Think of how somone who only has cleaning help 2-4 hours a week has their help doing the heaviest, hardest cleaning in that time. Versus someone who has 4-6 hours a day, their cleaning help will likely be also doing much ligher, easier things like laundry and dishes. True that pesach time this may be less true than usual, but she may not realize that when you offer. So no, it is not the same difference and it is possible she may drop someone else by you asking for more hours. |
This is something to think about. If we are working our cleaning ladies extra hard erev pesach then consider paying overtime or a bonus. They are people not posessions.
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amother
OP
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Thu, Mar 14 2024, 3:33 pm
| amother Cerise wrote: | | Why what if they come to you after hours? I had one that worked from 6-10 pm before pesach. So why shouldn’t I get to hire her for some of those hours? |
After hours is a different thing.
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