if youre being supported finacially by one side

amother

Hydrangea

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 9:29 am

amother Ballota wrote:

I don't get these posts. What has inviting someone for Yom Tov do do with owning them?

Again, if they didn't invite them for Yom Tov, OP would be making her own Yom Tov in Israel. And then her parents wouldn't see her at all.

No, if his parents weren't supporting, they wouldn't be living in Israel to begin with. Or he would be working so they would be able to afford their own tickets.

amother

Hydrangea

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 9:32 am

amother Topaz wrote:

These answers are actually shocking to me.

A person is selfish with bad middos if they prioritize spending money that they will enjoy?
Most people have a finite amount of money and therefore spend on things that are worthwhile and enjoyable for them.

I spend money on a hotel so I can go. Am I selfish with bad middos that I don't send my neighbor and her family instead

I buy a new shaitel so I can look good and feel good. Am a selfish with bad middos if I don't just hand the shaitel to my sister?

Sure, in a perfect world with unlimited money, I pay for my neighbors hotel and my sister's shaitels and fly my kids in from EY to go to their in-laws.
But most of us (even those who support) don't have unlimited finances. And they're not bad people with bad middos for spending their money in a way that's enjoyable for them- in this case having their married kids at their Seder.

Because these are YOUR children and grandchildren, and YOU want them to be happy.

This is not at all the same as helping your sister. These are your children's grandparents, so yes, its selfish to say, you can only have a relationship with US because we paid for your tickets. You want your children and grandchildren to be happy. That's what being parents is all about, or should be.

amother

Topaz

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 9:36 am

amother Hydrangea wrote:

But OPs inlaws ARE doing that. OP goes to her parents for the second half. Just not the Seder.

And many people have limited finances and extend themselves.
Of course they want their children and grandchildren to be happy but that doesn't mean that they have to pay without getting the personal benefits, or risk being labeled selfish people with bad middos

amother

Hydrangea

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 9:40 am

amother Topaz wrote:

Someone who's supporting their children in Israel does not have limited finances/extending themselves, lets call a spade a spade.

And btw this I'm rich and I worked harder than you is baloney. NOBODY worked harder than my in laws who had enough money to live on, basically, and many people who are very wealthy, their only hard work is collecting a check.

amother

Chambray

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 9:41 am

amother Topaz wrote:

You know, of course the Seder is the main event on Pesach, but if I actually think about it, Shabbat Chol Hamoed or the second days are so much more relaxing and chilled. In some ways, OP 's parents are getting the better deal.

tichellady

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 10:19 am

amother Topaz wrote:

I don't know
I feel like these in-laws are still encouraging a good relationship with their kids in-laws.
They pay a few thousand dollars twice a year to bring their married kids in, and then happily let them spend the second days of Yom Tov by the inlaws.
That needs to be acknowledged as generous on its own.

They are however paying and want the married kids for the Seder. I think that's more than understandable.

I don’t know what that would look like specifically and I’m not saying there is one formula. I am just saying it’s a factor and probably involves some open communication.

tichellady

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 10:20 am

amother Chambray wrote:

So let them figure out what makes more sense for them. I agree that the Seder is more stressful but sometimes my siblings are in for that part and I would be sad to not see my siblings all year etc. this post is making me appreciate my parents and in laws who never pressure us about how to spend yomtov

amother

Ballota

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 10:52 am

amother Hydrangea wrote:

Huh? Many people with limited funds provide support to children learning in Israel.

Though yes, if they're providing full support, I assume they're well-off. Still doesn't mean they have unlimited funds!!

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 10:56 am

I have a sister in Israel being fully supported by our parents- her in-laws don't have the means, and for my parents it is not a struggle.
(I agree with the poster that pointed out that parents who are fully supporting a couple in Israel are rarely financially-tight...)
My parents don't "share" with the other side- they don't picture this couple as their that they can share
you will NEVER see my parents asking for ANYTHING from this couple becuase they give them EVERYTHING- last year my parents came to Israel for Pesach with our whole side, and they flew the couple back to the US for the second days so that they could spend time with his parents (shana rishona)- they paid for my sister to understand the VALUE of his family her inlaws and that shana rishona made a statememnt that we are not better or more deserving then you
Do they have a "right" to ask for more of this couple? many on this forum would say YES, but what do you gain?
Kids who realize that you only give if you gain from it, and that you don't have empathy for your DIL or SIL- you definintely don't garner the same respect and appreciation from those kids

paperflowers

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 11:19 am

I'm not hearing any bad middos on the part of OP, her parent's, or her in-laws. OP is just trying to navigate a pretty run of the mill family dynamics issue.

I have no reason to doubt that you are very grateful to your parents for being able to support you and your husband learning in Yerushalayim and that the support extends to flying you in for Pesach to see both families. Yes, money comes with strings attached, but it's reasonable to want to be at your parents' seder once in a while and it's okay to ask to come to your in-laws second days this year.

amother

Coffee

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:11 pm

amother Carnation wrote:

What happened to people having middos. So yes until now op did as told. But really do the in laws have to be so insensitive? Lucky them they can fly their kids home and want to see them pesach. Can’t they understand the other side does not have the means and wishes to spend sedarim with their kids too? I think the in laws are full of themselves. And let’s be real they only fly them home for selfish reasons of wanting to see their kid, not because they are helping their married kids out from the goodness of their hearts.

I am usually patient. I am not wealthy at all. What Planet do you live on?? Tickets are about $1600 a person. (if not more) That is close to 6000 shekel. times by 2, (the other adult flying) Maybe children? Not sure. Over 12,000 shekel for plane. plus I assume taxi to Ben Gurion. Plus Clothing for family as they are being supported. Roughly about 18.000 shekel the In laws are shelling out for YomTov. You really think the wife should kvetch about seeing her parents for Seder?? She can say ''Mom , Cant wait to see you in a bit''. Accept that your In laws are really Kind and bring you home for YT. They could have said ''make Pesach in Israel'' Thank, Thank, Thank. Parents Do Not owe you anything! Not even to see your parents for Seder.

amother

Butterscotch

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:20 pm

amother Hydrangea wrote:

This is so gross. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Most people don’t just collect a check, they had to put in blood sweat and tears to build up to the point they’re at. My father is very wealthy BH and he did not start off that way. I watched him suffer tirelessly for many years to get to where he is now. He had to sacrifice a lot, he rarely had any time for himself let alone his family, and he never gave up. Most people aren’t born with a silver spoon in their mouth and work very hard for the life they have.

And most people I know who spent years living in Israel learning, being fully supported by parents, the parents couldn’t actually afford it. They stretched themselves very thin and cut costs and took on more debt because that’s what they wanted to do for their children

amother

Buttercup

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:44 pm

I don't know. When you support your children...are you doing it for them or for yourself?
My kids are still young so naturally we're paying for everything they do. Should we tell them which seminary to choose because we're paying for it? Should we tell them where to live if we help them in the future with a house downpayment?

amother

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:45 pm

too many people to answer so ill just write here. I honestly am not upset abt the situation I am happy to go to my in laws for first days and I do think it is the right thing to do regardless. they do so much for me and its just a small way I can show hakaras hatov! I was mostly posting this to reassure myself that I am doing the wrong thing bc it is hard to know, bc my parents are giving me a hard time.

amother

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:58 pm

amother Ballota wrote:

A sibling of mine had this one sukkos and they were by his parents both first days and last days, and only visited my parents for a couple of nights over chol hamoed. NOT BECAUSE her in-laws were bad people at all, but because they were bringing them over for a reason. To spend time with them over Yom Tov.

When it's every Yom Tov it makes it much harder because of course you would love to go to your family more, but as other posters mentioned, your alternative would be not to come at all. So really it's a huge bonus for your parents that you're able to do this.

I know, I personally understand this its just hard bc my parents dont understand this and they make me feel guilty. its not that theyre not grateful to my in laws they are just sad for themselves.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 7:59 pm

amother Wallflower wrote:

Op, have you ever discussed it with your in laws? Am I the only one that feels that if they really love their child/ dil then they'd be ok with taking turns? Otherwise I'd call them selfish. Yes, selfish. They are paying for tickets for their own honor and pleasure.

Lots of Sinas Chinum here, good I dont know you IRL.
If they take your advice they risk losing the whole trip and OPs parents wont have them for second days either. And maybe their relationship with OPs in laws will suffer.

What kind of garbage is that - "if they really love their child..." You are testing them?? They are the parents,and generous ones at that. They can decide to stop support. You are ok with that?
OPs parents are naturally sad, but perhaps a bit jealous and selfish too - if you want to go the sinas chinum route?

If OP and her husband want the ability to spend yuntif as they wish, they can discuss it with his parents understanding they may risk having to end their kollel life and get jobs.
Yes, when you are supported, it may come with strings attached. I dont hear OP complaining.

There are consequence to your advice. Be careful.

kugelEater

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:02 am

It sounds like OP's parents are giving her a hard time since they wish that they can have her family for the sedarim, while OP (rightfully) feels that the right thing to do is to go to her in laws since they are paying for their tickets. Nothing to do even with who is or isn't supporting them, just the fact that they paid for their tickets does somewhat entitle her in laws to have first picks of when to host her family.

I have honestly no idea how to tell this to your parents, but really, you are right and it's too bad. If they want to host you for the sedarim, maybe they should take it up with your in laws directly, and be prepared to split the cost of the tickets. If that's not something that they are prepared to do, maybe you can move your return tickets to be later so you can spend more time with them after Yom Tov.

I don't understand the people who are saying that OP's in laws have bad middos. I don't think anyone in this situation has better or worse middos, it is a tricky situation that everyone needs to be mature about and handle it.