S/o coupons/middle class

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:27 pm

amother Royalblue wrote:

Not necessarily. It’s a mindset that allows you to grow much faster , depending on your self completely.

I’d love to recommend the book ‘rich dad poor dad’
Often enough if we broaden our thoughts to think in bigger less restrictive ways we make more financially smart choices

What is restrictive about taking free benefits that you would otherwise have to spend your own money on? Nothing is stopping you from having a growth mindset even if you are currently low income and accept benefits.

If you can’t make smart financial choices even while on benefits, that’s a handicap, not a point of pride.

amother

Rose

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:27 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

Me, I “pulled it off”, along with many people I know. When I was low income due to having young kids and a husband who was in school, I gladly took Medicaid, food stamps, and WIC. Why wouldn’t I rightfully and legally take free benefits? I had paid enough money in taxes in the previous years that I felt no guilt. When our income went up we reported our income changes and were taken off (we actually got 4 years of free Medicaid due to not being kicked off due to Covid! Lucky us!) it was a great financial move for us. We were able to save so much money that would have otherwise been spent on groceries and health insurance. Many of my friends did the same.

How much did your income go up by, though? By juuuuuust enough to get kicked off SNAP, or significantly?

I think everyone would take a $50,000 income increase with no qualms. It's only hard when you're making $10,000 more but losing $14,000 in benefits.

And although you hope that you will eventually move up to a better paying job, there's no guarantee.

amother

Bone

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:29 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

Round of applause for you. A quick look around Lakewood will quickly tell you that the overwhelming majority don’t succeed.

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:33 pm

amother Rose wrote:

You’re right, our income took a huge jump when my husband graduated. Which we knew would IyH happen. So it was definitely easier for me to approach the decision from a rational position.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:35 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

It’s a restricting mindset. It just is.

When u r accepting the benefits you are not in the mindset I’m referring to.

Hard to explain

My husband relied on my income and we totally were fine.
Yet when I stopped working his drive woke up and his mindset no longer could bank on another pocket. He bh does very well for himself now, and recommends the book to many people

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:36 pm

amother Rose wrote:

I'm a big talker.

You don't know how long you'll be stuck in that no-mans-land of making just too much for food stamps (maybe forever), and in the meantime your family is unhappy with the cheaper food. I don't know if I'd make the right decision.

Not having to decide at all gives you the freedom to grow financially without that pull. It gets you used to living with exactly what you make and no more.

Theoretically it might be smarter to do things differently, but humans are humans. There's a reason why most people do the debt snowball method instead of paying off the highest interest card first. There's a reason why birth control lists effectiveness with normal use, not only with theoretical perfect people.

I agree that the “human factor” needs to be taken into account when making these kinds of decisions.

But now that you brought it up, the debt snowball method is exactly the same. It may be a good idea for people who are not disciplined enough to continue paying down their debt unless they get early gratification. But it is objectively a poor financial decision and should not be recommended as a first choice for anyone in debt. Only as a last resort for people with poor financial discipline (which is most of Dave Ramsey’s audience).

amother

Royalblue

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:38 pm

Also want to add that’s it’s a tremendous disservice we do to our young couples that we give them this mindset of try to get every program - look around how many cannot get off and jump into self sufficiency.

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:39 pm

amother Rose wrote:

Also, if someone is truly stuck in the income bracket forever where they make just a bit too much for programs and are therefore financially worse off, then the smart decision would be to make a bit less so that they can accept the programs. Going off programs due to a salary raise is only financially smart if it’s a step on a much longer journey toward a higher salary. Not if you’re going to get stuck there for life.

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:40 pm

amother Royalblue wrote:

True but the answer is not to say “don’t take the free money”. It’s to teach them financial sense and financial preparedness so that they take the free money when they can while simultaneously working toward high incomes.

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:41 pm

amother Bone wrote:

Round of applause for you. A quick look around Lakewood will quickly tell you that the overwhelming majority don’t succeed.

Many men in Lakewood do not have any career training and start off in kollel for the first few years, which means they only start working when expenses are already high and they have no skills. This is a recipe for financial disaster. I don’t think you can blame it on the existence of Medicaid and food stamps. Do you say the same about parental support?

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:46 pm

amother Royalblue wrote:

I actually totally agree with you that many times when men are relying on their wife’s income they don’t have the same drive. But when that’s taken away they wake up. You see this a lot in men also who suddenly start really advancing in their career when they have their first child. It kicks them into provider mode.

Most healthy men naturally have an inborn instinct to provide for their family, and this instinct can definitely be stifled by their environment. But I don’t think relying on a wife’s salary and so having a lower financial drive is the same as accepting Medicaid or food stamps. I don’t think it affects people psychologically the same way.

And even if it does, it’s still objectively the worse financial situation, albeit a necessary evil due to human nature. So if someone can avoid this trap and take the programs, that’s a good thing, better than not taking the programs.

amother

Garnet

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:53 pm

amother Bone wrote:

Round of applause for you. A quick look around Lakewood will quickly tell you that the overwhelming majority don’t succeed.

My brother is in kollel and they are getting benefits and saving any extra money they have for a down payment. I think that’s a great move!

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:19 pm

amother Garnet wrote:

My brother is in kollel and they are getting benefits and saving any extra money they have for a down payment. I think that’s a great move!

Agreed! Most of my friends did this as well. How can it be anything but a rationally smart financial move? I don’t see what there is to be proud of by saying “I didn’t take free money because I would rather spend my own”. I understand for some people who can’t think rationally it may be necessary to turn down the programs but that’s a bad thing, not a good one.

amother

Pewter

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:20 pm

amother Garnet wrote:

My brother is in kollel and they are getting benefits and saving any extra money they have for a down payment. I think that’s a great move!

If they were truly eligible for the government programs they wouldn’t have extra to save for a down payment. Something isn’t being reported. That’s the nature of the beast and the problem…to be TRULY eligible, you have to really be poor…to be on the programs and still have extra to save…usually doesn’t make sense…is he reporting parental support?

amother

Bone

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:23 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

This.

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:28 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

This is not true. We reported 100% of our income and were able to save money while on programs. Parental support does NOT always count toward food stamps and Medicaid, even when it is reported. Also, most of our income was earned during the summer, and many programs calculate eligibility month by month, which meant that we were rightfully eligible for 10 out of 12 months if the year while still earning a decent income in the summer which covered most of our annual expenses.

amother

Rose

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:28 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

There are no guarantees.

Most people's income increases incrementally, not dramatically. Sometimes the only way to get a $20,000 salary increase is to start with a $10,000 one, even with a net loss, and hope that in a few months or a few years you can get another $10,000 increase.

If someone is on programs, they are disincentivized from taking this risk, which in a large number of cases (probably not every time) results in an overall higher income.

Taking out the benefits from the picture, though difficult, is a very smart move psychologically.

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:30 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

And another thing to keep in mind, many blue states like New York will not kick you off of Medicaid mid year even if you report a higher income. They will keep you on Medicaid until your annual renewal date. Which means an entire family can legally be getting close to a year of Medicaid even after their income rises. This can translate to savings of $20k!

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:33 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

But to continue the conversation from above, many posters were arguing that it’s better not to take the programs even if you’re eligible so that you don’t come to rely on them. However, how would it even be financially possible for people who are eligible to instead pay for the programs themselves , if you’re saying it’s impossible for someone who’s eligible for programs to have any leftover money for savings?

We have multiple posters here who are saying the purposely turned down benefits they were eligible for and instead paid from their own pocket. Which means it is possible to be eligible and also have extra money in your income.

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:36 pm

amother Bone wrote:

This.

Imamother Bone, youre agreeing with the point Imamother Pewter made about it being suspicious to have money for savings if you’re eligible for programs. But earlier you told us that you chose to pay for the programs even when you were eligible to get them for free. So can you explain how you had the money to pay for them?