what should I do tenant not paying rent?

greenfire

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 2:24 pm

are you sure that it is legal to charge over the amount the gov't pays for the apartment $1200 is a pretty hefty fee and you cannot evict them for not paying since the gov't does ...

you let this go for 3 years - which can be construed as a modified tenant agreement ...

so many factors - including the mitzva of not over charging for s/t and having them help out the dif ...

but to downright evict them seems uncouth ...

costanza

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 2:56 pm

I don't see why so many of you are seeing this as a matter of chesed.

Does a restaurant owner need to feed hungry people for free?
Does a car rental company lend out cars for free to poor Jews who need them?
Does a furniture company give furniture to homeless people who wanty a cozy night's sleep?

In any other business situation chesed does not come into play. If the OP decides to give these people a home at a drastically discounted rate as a form of chesed, that's up to her. But if she sees this as a business with earning potential, she has to treat it as such.

I wonder, to all of the posters who feel so sorry for the tenants, would you have the same attitude if the OP described them as being Black or Muslim?

There's nothing wrong with making a living and trying to make as much money as you can. I say, be aggressive about it and end this situation.

One more thing - what makes anybody believe that this woman will agree to be a babysitter or a cleaning lady? The OP said she's very particular. Do you really think either of those 2 jobs are going to appeal to her?

octopus

Wed, Dec 10 2008, 10:06 pm

from http://www.hud.gov/progdesc/voucher.cfm
The Section 8 Rental Voucher Program increases affordable housing choices for very low-income households by allowing families to choose privately owned rental housing. The public housing authority (PHA) generally pays the landlord the difference between 30 percent of household income and the PHA-determined payment standard-about 80 to 100 percent of the fair market rent (FMR). The rent must be reasonable. The household may choose a unit with a higher rent than the FMR and pay the landlord the difference or choose a lower cost unit and keep the difference.

according to this, it is legal to charge extra.

ss321

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 7:50 am

costanza wrote:

I don't see why so many of you are seeing this as a matter of chesed.

I dont think anyone is seeing it as a matter of chessed and saying "oh let them live with you...just accept the sec 8 and thats it, nebuch he cant find a job..." I gave my suggestion - of bartering - offering a lower rent in exchange for cleaning housework etc, more as a negotiating tool than anything. So that she can say, look, were giving you an option. Were not kicking you out onto the street, but here is the deal. you want to live here? well you dont pay us, and we have bills to pay. There are no free rides in life. So you say DH cant find a job? HERE IS A JOB FOR HIM, take it or leave it. If you choose to leave it, then you have until the 31st to leave the apartment, and please make sure it is clean when you leave, if you would like your security deposit back, end of story.
You are right in most business situations chesssed doenst come into play, but I have seen, in extreme situations (and these ARE dire times), people trying to extend their hands to others. If someone spits back in your face at the idea of it, scoffs at it (oh cleaning houses is below me)-well that is their problem. If they cant help you out, no reason for you to help them out either. I dont think there was a single poster who said, how can you even be saying this? its a chessed to let them live there even if the DH is laz yand is so full of himself that he wont take any job unless it meets certain guidelines etc....

costanza wrote:

One more thing - what makes anybody believe that this woman will agree to be a babysitter or a cleaning lady? The OP said she's very particular. Do you really think either of those 2 jobs are going to appeal to her?

never met the woman, but my best guess would be no. but like I said above, why not just offer it, more as a negotiating tool than anything else.

Amother let us know what happens Smile

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 7:56 am

amother wrote:

My tenant has been unemployed for 3 years now and lives in a big 4 bedroom aprtment. We get a section8 (govt subsidized rent) check for $1200- and they should be giving us $500 but haven't for almost 3 years with the exception of giving us a few hundred dollars on 5 sep. occasions. Everytime we approach them they tell us how they have no money, etc. They are frum nice people but we can't afford to pay our bills and mortgage like this. The wife also has no luck with finding a job and neither one of them will take just ANY job, it's got to be to their specifications. Also we definitrly haven't been able to give them a rent raise and these apartment are now going for $2000. What should I do? I'm in this section bec. I need to remain anon.

I did not read the entire thread, but I would evict them el pronto. you do not have to live with their problems. you rented them the apartment in order to get the rent and they have not paid. I dont know how you waited this long. my in laws are landlords of an apartment that we look over (they live overseas) and they told us that if the tenants (also frum jews) are delinquent in two or three payments, we send an eviction letter. its too bad but their financial problems should not fall on you.

Fabulous

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 10:56 am

I would just like to address those who say that she should be at least happy with the money that she gets. I don't know where the OP lives but if she lives in Brooklyn, here is the situation. Homes, even small homes are going for 800,000 dollars to over one and half million. Especially if she bought it three years or more ago when the housing market wasn't as bad. That means that the rent she charges goes toward the mortgage. Mortgages can be in 8-10 thousand range, that means she needs all the help she can get. Rent for a two bedroom in brooklyn is GREAT at 1200. A three bedroom usually goes for a new one $1700, an older one perhaps $1500, a four bedroom, an older one $1700-1800, a newer one as much as $2400. If her apt. is nice that means she can get up to double what her current tenants are "paying". Is it fair that she should have to settle for so much less than what she herself needs?

creativemommyto3

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 11:22 am

Fabulous wrote:

That's probably right, but the question is whether she would get another renter in this economy? Let's say she kicks them out and then sits for a year or more without a renter b/c ppl can't afford such a high rent.. she then is WORSE off then now.

Also, Is it fair to say that maybe the OP might have made her price based on what she could get from section 8 and then added so that she could get more money?

The OP is getting rent, it's not like she is being left high and dry. Also, it is neglectful on her part to have let it go so long.. A person is mechuyav to take care of themselves.. Being that she too was neglectful, she should really think hard about this.

ss321

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 11:32 am

creativemommyto3 wrote:

The OP is getting rent, it's not like she is being left high and dry. Also, it is neglectful on her part to have let it go so long.. A person is mechuyav to take care of themselves.. Being that she too was neglectful, she should really think hard about this.

I dont think negleftful is the right word. more like compassionate, nice, extra-patient

creativemommyto3

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 11:34 am

ss321 wrote:

creativemommyto3 wrote:

I dont think negleftful is the right word. more like compassionate, nice, extra-patient

I would say that if it was only 6 months or so.. but 3 YEARS..... nobody is that nice or should be.

amother

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 12:41 pm

I'm in a similar situation to OP, no one should be defending the delinquint tenant. Speak to a Rav NOW! Get the process rolling, because it takes time, till the Din Torah takes place, plus the amount of time they are given to move. Plus going to court if they don't listen to the psak. It could take even a year, minimum six months.

In our case, the tenants got divorced, and everyone feels sorry for the single mother, who is not paying us rent. In addition she is making up and spreading stories about us all over the place. She is getting help from every direction, but my husband has to beg and borrow to raise money for the mortgage. When I last spoke to her, I asked her if she wanted us to be foreclosed, her reply was, if you can't handle it, you shouldn't own a building! So those who support her, wouldn't mind if we lose our only asset and remain penniless, chas v'shalom. Creativemommyto3, and everyone who defends stealing from the owner, as long as you are "poor", although the owner is also poor : Is that compassionate or cruel?

Oh, if anyone has tips how to avoid these types of tenants in the future, what screening techniques to employ, please post.

creativemommyto3

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 12:46 pm

Who is defending? There has to be more to this story than we are hearing. Why is it taking this landlord 3 years to wake up and want to do something?

I am just trying to think logically. We also don't know if the OP didn't jack up the rent inorder to get more money which might not be honest either.

I am also trying to protect the OP from losing that 1200 dollars that she is already getting.. if she kicks this tenant , Are YOU going to pay the rent for the months that there is no renter???

Lani22

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 12:47 pm

creativemommyto3 wrote:

It doesnt sound like this apt would be empty for too long - 4 bedroom for $1700 a month is a bargain

Lani22

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 12:53 pm

creativemommyto3 wrote:

That's a bargain .. you must be kidding. that's practically 2,000 dollars..

Im sorry I dont actually live in Brooklyn and im not soo familiar with diff neighborhoods but from what previos posters have posted (looking for apts in brooklyn) im pretty sure that is a bargain especially since since section 8 covers $1200 of it.

amother

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 1:01 pm

second amother. I can tell you that we tried to ask for a raise and the lady threatened us with mesirah to the housing department! There is no shortage of codes in NYC housing, and what to find to cite for violations, for anyone who is bent on messing up their landlord. Mad

That is the reason we haven't gotten a raise this past year from the family, before they broke up.

It isn't easy to rock the boat and ask for a raise, tenants often put up a major fight when asked for one. Even when agreed upon in advance, in the lease. Just read some of the anti-landlord posts on this forum.

I

Quote:

am just trying to think logically. We also don't know if the OP didn't jack up the rent inorder to get more money which might not be honest either.

for a four bedroom, the price the landlord asked for is much less than the market rate.

I

Quote:

am also trying to protect the OP from losing that 1200 dollars that she is already getting.. if she kicks this tenant , Are YOU going to pay the rent for the months that there is no renter???

If the apartment is in very good condition it will be grabbed up at $2000. If not, it will still go quickly for the original $1500, which is a bargain for that size apartment. Only if it's positively run down is there a chance that she'll be stuck without a renter, and even then, with a moderate investment of a paint job, and new carpeting or scraping, she can get a nice rent. BTDT.

creativemommyto3

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 1:15 pm

Those statements weren't anti-landlord.. you just don't like what I have to say. If the OP let it last this long then she is really naive.. She really has to ask a Rav what to do.

boy am I glad not to live in Brooklyn, those prices are enormous . Here in EY.. my apartment was empty for 10 months before I got to it. How do you know that this won't happen here?

Truthfully, the reason why the OP is in this sit is b/c the market is outrageously high and many ppl can't pay it.

When I live in NY, I lived in a two bedroom for 900 dollars. That is outrageous.. Here in EY, I was paying 420 dollars for renting a 3 bedroom..

The prices are so high b/c one person made the price so high and then other saw that they could get that price so it mushroomed.

This isn't a case of tenants who don't pay b/c the OP is getting rent. She can sit down with these ppl with a lawyer and have it all explained but should also think logically and not about the 500 dollars b/c she might not get it. There is a chance that nobody will rent it.. you don't know that it won't sit for months and months without a renter.