The "burden" on society

Clarissa

Sat, Mar 28 2009, 10:35 pm

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

We are one close-knit nation that care for each other, and that closeness has gotten us through a lotta rough times.

I forgot how close we all were! One big happy, close family! (((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))

Seriously, most of the comments here have little to do with the topic at hand, and the topic at hand makes little sense to me. Nobody will limit the number of babies you have. Some people may gripe about paying for them if you can't afford them, just as some of you often gripe about supporting other people. Yes, Jews are great, kumbaya, but my tax dollars go toward Jews and non-Jews alike, as they should.

Clarissa

Sat, Mar 28 2009, 10:50 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

I think we should encourage Jewish mothers to have as many children as they can have healthily and help each other support each other and not rely on the government.
But that is probably an unpopular view to all.

I like this idea. The ideal would be that, if Jewish families are encouraged, or even required, to keep having children, like-minded Jews would help support them, instead of government.

Imaonwheels

Sun, Mar 29 2009, 12:10 am

And this whole discussion has a lot to do with tuition because the number of families having problems would be almost none if not for tuition costs. Hilchos TT say one has to support the cheder even if he has no sons. The problem is more what Jewish tzedaka dollars are going to. The major orgamisations are wasteful and believe it or not there is no supervion on organizations use of allocations.

My fil is a higher up in both the JNF and AIPAC. He never gave to a Jewish organization until he married my mil some 10 years ago. He, as a business person, was appalled at the lack of supervision that projects funded were actually carried out. He was approached by the mayor of a city to build a new community center for Ethiopians. He investigated and found that a brand new CC had been built in a very upscale (think architect designed houses) and the residents did not want Ethiopians there together with their children. You give money to "help Israel" and the federation nearly got tricked into funding class and race segregation. Despite being nearly 80 years old my fil is now being asked by other major orgs to help them put what he did in the JNF in place by them as well.

If the community and individual families made education their top priority, including relieving the burden for those who cannot use the ps system, the frum financial picture would be much brighter. Of course, the Jews as normal mostly shot themselves in the foot again by voting in the politicians who are the least likely to help in this regard.

Mrs Bissli

Wed, Apr 01 2009, 6:42 pm

I've read the actual Fox article a bit belated (too busy cleaning the kitchen and dodging protestors) and am still perplexed why the original story (which was about general government deficit) has been totally hijacked to the family size and welfare issues. Don't people remember the National Debt clock (was that in Rockfeller Centre or Madison Sq Garden) in the 1980s? Theoretically, the more babies we have, we are actually reducing per capita debt.

It's basically the same story. The government spends $XYZ bazillion to fix the financial system and the economy, then future generation has to service the debt (not really like repaying mortgages, but either rollover debt or shrink it down by increased tax revenues or reduced government spends). The argument by Concord Institute is nothing new--someone, like either Chinese or Japanese or Gulf sheiks have to buy US government bonds as US has fiscal deficit, which has been the case at least since 1980s.

As a matter of fact, we have totally opposite problem in Europe--basically who is going to fund relatively generous social benefits with greying population? Some countries, like Italy, have birthrates below natural replacement level. If you look at national debt as % of GDP, Italy and Japan (both of which has birth rate below 2.0) are nearing danger zone. If anything, the argument should be in favour of having more children!

Debbie

Thu, Apr 02 2009, 2:37 am

The ideal would be that, if Jewish families are encouraged, or even required, to keep having children, like-minded Jews would help support them, instead of government.[/quote]

Required to keep having children?
I take it there would be exceptions to this,people like me for example who have to take medication which makes pregnancy very risky or what about those who can't cope.
I work in childcare and I have seen families who maybe have a couple of children and they are barely managing the responsibilty.
Having a large family is wonderful but it isn't always the very best thing.

Debbie

Thu, Apr 02 2009, 1:39 pm

Clarissa wrote:

I agree with everything you say, Debbie. I was referring to those who believe they are halachically required to have babies and not to use birth control.

I follow you Clarissa; so if for example a lady had a heter to use birth control because she had a medical condition then the requirement wouldn't include her.
It makes sense.