Woman spends a year on Frum Womens Forums for her thesis!!!

Clarissa

Mon, Jun 29 2009, 11:34 pm

Merrymom wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

Merrymom wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

Or we could accept that the internet isn't really a living room, it is not private, and our words and thoughts (and pictures, if we post them) are out there forever, for any and all to see.

This is exactly why I don't belong to Facebook, Myspace, etc.

Message boards are even more public than those places, if it's possible.

Really? So why do they make us bother with that whole interview thing? Is that just to keep the posters to a select few but not the readers?

Do you honestly think that the interview is designed to keep out people who might have some other motivation for being here? She probably was perfectly capable of answering those questions, and may, in fact, be frum.

I really am surprised that people are so shocked that this can happen. Frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more.

cassandra

Mon, Jun 29 2009, 11:43 pm

I always thought this place would be an interesting thesis topic. Now that I see how vapid it would have turned out I'm glad she beat me to it.

ETA: It's way too short to be a thesis.

ETA: And she's way past that.

Quote:

Judy Tydor Baumel-Schwartz is the chair of the Graduate Program in Contemporary Jewry and Associate Professor of Jewish History at Bar-Ilan University in Ramat-Gan, Israel. She is the author of numerous books and articles and specializes in topics pertaining to the Holocaust, Gender, Memory, State of Israel, and Commemoration. Among her books are Double Jeopardy: Gender and the Holocaust (Vallentine Mitchell 1998), and Perfect Heroes: The World War II Parachutists and Collective Israeli Memory (Heb.) (Sde Boker, 2004).

pina colada

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 12:02 am

If people come to this site to read, get information, share, post, support, or whatever, that's what this site is about. For someone to come on here for the sole purpose of infiltration and to study the discussions on the forums for a thesis, that does not feel right. She must have been frum and gained entry to this site by posting as a frum woman who wanted to join this site. It would have been more ethichal of her to request Yael's permission before doing what she did.

And I would love to know how Mamabear located this thesis.

pina colada

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 12:06 am

Chara wrote:

If you scroll down to "the forums" and then look at the 3rd paragraph, it actually brings up imamother

or is it I'm a mother..? Rolling Eyes

I did not get what you are referring to. Can you specify which line?

Raizle

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 12:35 am

Clarissa wrote:

Merrymom wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

Merrymom wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

Or we could accept that the internet isn't really a living room, it is not private, and our words and thoughts (and pictures, if we post them) are out there forever, for any and all to see.

This is exactly why I don't belong to Facebook, Myspace, etc.

Message boards are even more public than those places, if it's possible.

Really? So why do they make us bother with that whole interview thing? Is that just to keep the posters to a select few but not the readers?

I don't see anyone being shocked and I'm not shocked myself. It's the ethical side of things that we are questioning. People can tell us till they are blue in the face that it's to be expected on the internet, that still doesn't make it ethical or right.

Merrymom

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 12:47 am

Clarissa wrote:

Merrymom wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

Or we could accept that the internet isn't really a living room, it is not private, and our words and thoughts (and pictures, if we post them) are out there forever, for any and all to see.

This is exactly why I don't belong to Facebook, Myspace, etc.

Message boards are even more public than those places, if it's possible.

Well, unlike me Judy Baumel Schwartz does have a facebook page, I just checked out her picture.

queen

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:03 am

Have no recollection of how long ago (maybe a year? two years ago) there was a poster who posted something about wanting to gather information about us ladies and if we wanted to partake... Don't recall why, but her request got pulled off as it wasn't appropriate for our site. I wonder if that woman is the author of this paper?

so bottom line- what was her point, what did she get to regarding our (and other religious) forums for women?

freidasima

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:08 am

This may be the internet where everything goes but I'm still very disturbed by it. That's why people should be careful with what they post anywhere on the internet. I keep telling my kids to be careful what they post, it can come back to haunt them on job interviews in the future etc.

I'm not shocked but I'm sad about this and agree with the posters who mention ethics. In my profession people write up their cases sometimes for other therapists to learn from, but only with full permission of the clients. In any case, it's a reminder for me to be even more careful in the future about what I post.

HindaRochel

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:32 am

Atali wrote:

I don't know how to explain it exactly, but it feels like an evasion of privacy for some reason Scratching Head

, not that there is any real privacy on the internet anyway..

Yes; because whoever was trolling didn't permission to use the various groups as part of her research. No, because Sequoia is right. Send it out to the Internet world and there is no privacy.

BUT it would have been right to ask at least the owners of the group for permission, and to introduce herself.

grin

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:37 am

I don't get why people feel an invasion of privacy. Much of this site is available to public view - in general, it's been shown that we prefer it to be that way. Why is this any different than guests who find this site coming up on a Google search, which is how many of us found it in the first place? I think her study is rather interesting and non-judgmental.

shosh

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:40 am

I met Judy Baumel about 17 years ago, at the place where I worked. She's MO and if I remember, a very nice person.

But I agree that she should have asked Yael's permission. I also hope that she didn't post anything as that could have affected her research.

hila

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:44 am

Actually I first found imamother when I was qualifying to be a doula.

We had to do a project - and I chose J"ewish birthing resources on the internet".

However I became addicted to imamother and never left !

queen

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:57 am

I feel anything one posts on the web is public.
If something is too private, don't post.... but don't hold it on others who used public information towards their own benefit.

Yael's screening for posters is only to make sure religious MARRIED woman are joining, no where does it say your information posted (BY YOURSELF) will be kept private, regardless of having certain topics barred from view by non-registered lurkers.

merelyme

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 2:57 am

I think we all feel kind of used. We post info here and share with others for whatever reasons we do that. We don't expect it to be used in some study.
We have a basic assumption that if a person is going to be used in a study, s/he is aware of that and has given his/her permission.
This was a violation of trust - the trust we place in the site and the other users - and possibly unethical because she did not reveal her motives in signing on, reading and using this site, not to mention that she publicized her findings.

ChossidMom

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 2:59 am

I agree with Clarissa. Why so surprised? How do we know who is lurking and reading the stuff we post? How do we know what use they want to make of it?

I had a look at the paper and she does discuss imamother specifically. She also discusses many other "frum" forums and brings examples of the discussions about intimacy. Pretty disgusting, if you ask me.... But she'll have to answer to her creator for that...I don't really want to read that garbage.