Do you give your kids the flu shot?

Marion

Tue, Nov 03 2009, 9:47 pm

mom2bsn wrote:

the flu shot CANNOT give you the flu..its dead..it takes 2 weeks for the shot to take affect so thats y you got the flu..
I dont see any reason why someone wouldnt give their children the flu shot and to themselves also especially if you are preg. Drs are recommending everyone get it especially because of H1N1.

And my pediatrician davka recommended AGAINST the H1N1 shot. (American doc practicing in Israel.) For me AND for the kids.

But, as I said originally, that's the right decision for me. I'm not looking to convince anyone else. (Just like the right decision for me is to give my kids the MMR, and there are others out there who won't do it. That's their choice too, for their kids. I do believe there's something to herd immunity, but there are valid reasons not to give any particular shot and I don't get to decide for anyone outside my immediate family.)

Hodu Lashem

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 9:10 am

Marion wrote:

But, as I said originally, that's the right decision for me. I'm not looking to convince anyone else. (Just like the right decision for me is to give my kids the MMR, and there are others out there who won't do it. That's their choice too, for their kids. I do believe there's something to herd immunity, but there are valid reasons not to give any particular shot and I don't get to decide for anyone outside my immediate family.)

I'm not sure if everyone is aware of this, but just recently there was an outbreak of the Mumps in the frum communities in the US and Canada. A dr. told me that there were approx. 600 children who contracted this disease which was thought to have been irradicated in the US. And it only affected children in the frum communities who had not been vaccinated! It seems a child contracted it in Europe (England?) and brought it back. It spread through BP, Lakewood, and Toronto.

Do you know that possible complications of the mumps are encephalitis and sterility? Why would anyone put their children at risk for that, if there are safe vaccines? Even if you don't want the mercury (which btw it has been proven in numerous studies that it is not linked to autism), they make the vaccines without thimerosal now!

I think it's just ignorance of the facts.

gryp

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 9:42 am

Let's talk facts, since you mentioned them.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/do.....1.pdf
57 confirmed cases in Brooklyn.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/ht.....shtml

Quote:

What complications have been associated with mumps?

* The mumps virus can infiltrate the central nervous system, but the resulting illness (viral meningitis) is usually not serious. Headache and stiff neck occur in up to 15% of people with mumps.
* Males who are past puberty may experience orchitis, or testicular inflammation. It causes pain, swelling, nausea, vomiting and fever. The affected area may remain tender for weeks. Approximately half of patients with orchitis experience some atrophy of the testicles, but they rarely lose the ability to produce sperm.
* Some women experience inflammation of the ovaries or breasts from mumps.
* Deafness, in one or both ears, occurs in approximately one person out of 20,000 who develops mumps.

http://www.novaccine.com/vacci.....id=22

Quote:

Adverse Reactions
The vaccine is associated with serious adverse reactions including permanent nervous system damage and thrombocytopenia, meningitis, arthritis, central nervous system disorders, peripheral neuropathies, Guillain-Barré syndrome, transverse myelitis, (a paralyzing disease of the spinal cord). Long-term effects are unknown. There have been no long-term safety studies regarding MMR, to date.

Here's a recent study on vaccines and autism, which I've seen now on quite a few websites:

Quote:

It has been speculated for some time that there might be a link in the alarming rise in cases of autism among tiny infants and children and massive multiple vaccinations today given routinely to infants and children from the first hours of birth. There is clear and shocking evidence of the link between the two. If you do not have a strong constitution, you are advised not to read further.

A new study shows a direct link between standard childhood vaccination series, MMR, and autism-like symptoms in monkeys. The principal scientist involved in the study, Dr. Laura Hewitson of the University of Pittsburgh, presented the alarming conclusions as an abstract pending publication at the International Meeting for Autism Research. It has been presented at scientific conferences in both London and Seattle, USA.

The study compared vaccinated macaque monkeys with non-vaccinated macaques. No major flaws in the study have been revealed by any attending scientist. The vaccines included the popular MMR series. The study found a marked increase in “gastrointestinal tissue gene expression” and “inflammation issues” with those monkeys which received vaccinations. They are a common symptom of children with regressive autism.

The study also found marked behavior changes and development differences in those monkeys given the vaccines versus those who were not. "Compared with unexposed animals, significant neuro-developmental deficits were evident for exposed animals in survival reflexes, tests of color discrimination and reversal, and learning sets," the study`s authors reported. "Differences in behaviors were observed between exposed and unexposed animals and within the exposed group before and after MMR vaccination."

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 9:43 am

Gam zu l'tovah wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

3. A complication of the flu, especially in young children, is pneumonia. It's not so common, and pneumonia by itself is not all that scary. Sometimes it's worse than other times (oxygen levels can be low for example) and require hospitalization, but most times a child can heal at home just fine (like my son did).

Don't be fooled to think that "pneumonia is not all that scary". I also thought that way. In fact when the doctor wanted to hospitalize me for the flu, I thought he was just being an alarmist. He told me later that I could have died. People still die from pneumonia, and not just the elderly. Young people. It is not something to play around with!

I'm NOT fooled. I said pneumonia by itself is not all that scary. Meaning pneumonia can be serious, can be not serious. It's not a given that it is serious.

I've dealt with several family members who have had pneumonia. I know of a kid in the hospital last week with pneumonia (related through marriage). I'm not trying to downplay the risks, but it's not a given that 1)it will be serious 2)one will get it from the flu 3)one will even get the flu, so all this needs to be taken into consideration when deciding whether the flu vaccine (which doesn't protect against all flus anyway) is worth it or not. It's a factor. That's all.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 9:44 am

Gam zu l'tovah wrote:

Ignorance of facts would be that almost every single person who got the mumps WAS vaccinated.

Hodu Lashem

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 10:11 am

GR: I wrote approx. 600 in the USA and Canada - not 600 in Brooklyn.

Also, could you quote studies from mainstream accepted publications that have no obvious bias? I'd like to see those.

It's hard to take a quote seriously when it is from a website called "novaccine.com", especially when their sources are not standard or scientific. The only scientifically established source quoted is from JAMA and that article was against combining vaccinations.

I'm not being sarcastic. I would really like to see those sources if you can find them.

Tehilla

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 10:11 am

Gam zu l'tovah wrote:

Actually, as Hashem_Yaazor said, almost everyone who got the mumps WAS vaccinated. Including my husband's boss who said, "I can't believe I got this. I was vaccinated." Including quite a few other people at shul also...

Hodu Lashem

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 10:13 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Gam zu l'tovah wrote:

Ignorance of facts would be that almost every single person who got the mumps WAS vaccinated.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that the children who contracted the disease were vaccinated?

GetReal

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 10:16 am

Gam zu l'tovah wrote:

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that the children who contracted the disease were vaccinated?

Yup, most of them.

Hodu Lashem

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 10:44 am

OK, GetReal. According to GR's source above at nyc.gov, regarding the 57 documented mumps cases, you are right:

"At this time, there are 57 confirmed or probable cases and additional suspect cases are under investigation. Cases have ranged in age from 1 to 42 years, with the majority occurring among children age 10-15 years. Twenty-five per cent of cases either did not have two doses of mumps containing vaccine or had unknown vaccination status, while the remaining 75% had two documented doses of mumps containing vaccine."

I stand corrected. (Humble, aren't I? Wink

)

gryp

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 11:01 am

Gam zu l'tovah wrote:

Right. My point was that if there were 57 in Brooklyn, something tells me there weren't another 550 out there,

You can find the vaccine side effects on any number of websites, including the CDC's. Google. I chose the one which had it clearest, on WAVE's website, but if you don't like them, you can find it on a number of websites out there.

To think any vaccine has no side effects is absurd. Even Tylenol can have side affects. Check your package inserts.

gryp

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 11:13 am

And my last point is that there are always mumps outbreaks. It hasn't been eradicated like polio (from the Western Hemisphere, anyway).

Dr. Gerberding of the CDC in a press conference interview, during the 2006 mumps outbreak of over 1000 people:

Quote:

About 10 percent of people who get both doses of the vaccine still remain [susceptible] to mumps.

http://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-a......aspx

Hodu Lashem

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 11:29 am

GR: Who said that vaccines have no side effects? Not I. Please re-read my post above.

Also, I am not quoting a study re: 600 cases. I am quoting my pediatrician. Don't know about you, but I would say his knowledge may be more accurate than your "feeling" regarding the outbreak of mumps.

gryp

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 11:43 am

My comment about side-effects was directed towards this one of yours:

Quote:

Do you know that possible complications of the mumps are encephalitis and sterility? Why would anyone put their children at risk for that, if there are safe vaccines?

Sorry, I choked on it. I shouldn't have.

Hodu Lashem

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 12:19 pm

Hey, no problem!

I know this topic can be controversial and cause passionate debate, but I don't take it personally. I think we are all trying to look out for our children and do what we think is best for them.

Friends? Smile

gryp

Wed, Nov 04 2009, 12:22 pm

Friends.