Halachik Problem with Wearing Fake Channel or Louis Vuitton

amother

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 9:26 am

I think it would be a stretch to say its a "halachic" issue
the geneivas da'as wasnt something YOU stole, it was something some manufacturer in china or somewhere stole.
also, I dont know if its considered "geneivas daas" if something is that well known. meaning - if someone sells a cheaper version of a barbie doll (I see them all the time at places like amazing savings), is it assur for me to buy it, since someone stole the proportions for that doll from mattel?

from an ethical standpoint, whether or not you want to do it is for you to decide.

louche

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 9:33 am

Yes and yes.
BTW, the real thing is Chanel, pronounced sha-NELL, not Channel as in television.

Buying counterfeit brands is not much different from buying stolen property or illegally duplicating a CD. What was stolen was "intellectual property," IOW an idea or design, and it's forbidden.

There is also the issue of what this tells us about your character. Why do you feel the need to show off with famous designer names? There may be an issue of genevat daat in that you're trying to deceive people into believing that you're more affluent than you are. Without getting into halachic ramifications, which I'm not qualified to do, I still wonder why you want to present yourself as something that you're not. Bad enough to be a showoff of the "if you've got it, flaunt it" variety, but to flaunt it when don't even have it is even worse IMO.

Fox

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 4:13 pm

Although I agree with Louche in general, I do have empathy for the OP! I own a wonderful Louis Vuitton bag that I purchased about 25 years ago; needless to say, this was before marriage or children! It went with everything I owned; I could stuff a lot in it; and it always looked good.

After many repairs, however, it was time to retire it. My financial circumstances were obviously a great deal different, and the bag I paid $168 for in the mid-80s was now priced at over $900! So I succumbed and purchased a knock-off. I told myself if was "just until I decided what to do". Of course, it started to fall apart within a month, and all the little details that made my original bag wonderful were missing or badly reproduced.

In the end, I threw it away. Here are some suggestions to help you clarify your thinking on this:

1. Because of knock-offs as well as increased marketing and production, the Chanel and Louis Vuitton names are not as exclusive as they once were. You see them everywhere! Some are obviously fakes, but I see tons of real ones. IMHO, the cachet has been diminished in the last decade.

2. Seriously stylish, wealthy people (as opposed to oft-photographed celebs) have turned to brands like Hermes and Bottega Veneta. However, I'm going to be dan l'chav zchus and assume that no one on imamother is planning to spend $10,000 on a handbag. However, you might think about substituting a leather Coach Classic (without all the microfiber Cs!), an alligator bag, or even a custom-made leather bag (a lot of independent leather-goods stores sell incredible ones!). Consider having your own monogram stamped on it.

3. There is considerable evidence that at least part of the profits generated by the market in counterfeit luxury goods go to fund terrorist activities as well as third-world arms dealing. I've read conflicting analyses of these points, but they all reached the conclusion that when you purchase counterfeit goods, you are subsidizing some seriously bad people. I understand that this argument may be more compelling to some than others, but it's something to keep in mind.

I know I've veered considerably off the original question, which concerned the halachic implications of counterfeit goods. To my limited understanding, halacha is somewhat less clear about the concept of "intellectual property" than U.S. law. However, I'm going to suggest that you forego the fakes and search for something "real" that is both affordable and unique.

Fox

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 4:26 pm

Another comment: serious aficonadas of these brands are pretty good at spotting fakes -- even good fakes! I actually own a manual published by the Louis Vuitton people on how to spot counterfeits -- don't ask! I don't go around issuing tickets or making snide comments, but I routinely spot fakes. Personally, I have more regard for an Isaac Mizrahi bag from Target -- which are very well-designed and made, BTW -- than some of the more ubiquitous status brands.

ss321

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 6:24 pm

Fox wrote:

2. Seriously stylish, wealthy people (as opposed to oft-photographed celebs) have turned to brands like Hermes and Bottega Veneta. However, I'm going to be dan l'chav zchus and assume that no one on imamother is planning to spend $10,000 on a handbag. However, you might think about substituting a leather Coach Classic (without all the microfiber Cs!), an alligator bag, or even a custom-made leather bag (a lot of independent leather-goods stores sell incredible ones!). Consider having your own monogram stamped on it.

wow fox! that was like the most levelheaded, open-minded, and non-judgemental piece of advice I think anyone couldve given the OP! I was ready for a dozen or so women to yell "why do you need such a bag" "why are you such a faker," and "as you have more kids youll realize materialism isnt important and you should really reprioritize" or things like that.
OP, I really agree with this! Coach bags are very reasonably priced. If you go to somewhere like century (I think they carry coach), you can get a nicely priced coach bag for not that much more htan you would pay for a "good" fake (and BTW-like Fox said - the good fakes arent that great anyway! trust me. If you own a real vuitton bag, you can spot the fakes in a second. the letters dont line up, its missing the gold things on teh bottom, zippers jam, ladys purse doesnt snap, etc).
another option is buying one at a sort of consignment store? If you are in NYC they have them EVERYWHERE. I can post a list if youd like. You can buy some wealthy lady's bag from 2 years ago as she has since moved on to a new one and wants to make a little profit off hte old one. These items generally dont look "used." If you are ok with wearing clothes from a Gemach, its not really any different (except this time, if you pay to use it, you get to keep it).

ValleyMom

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 7:16 pm

First of all, buy a used designer hand bag... the PC term these days is VINTAGE!!!
Consignment stores are a terrrrific alternative for dropping a ton of money on a new desgner bag. ALSO... check out the coach outlet sales...
I lust for a $900 bag but I also lust for a replacement cooktop--and the glass cooktop is CHEAPER!!!
Whatever you do AVOID the knock offs... The gleu they use emits a strange odor... probably cancer causing... like the lead paint in the cheaply made chinese toys.
Good Luck!
Also, check out Macy's 40% off clearance table. They have some decent designer bags like Michael Kors and Marc Jacobs... scour the table... and go underneith sometimes I score the best stuff from boxes UNDER the clearance table!!
One more thing... I don't know if you would consider this ... Le Sprortsac has some awesome new designs with robots and Japanese characters that are really super hot right now... Bloomingdales had some on sale and Nordstrom's Rack too! The Le Sportsac are very light... pack easily for travel!