Do you know where your son in yeshiva is?

jerusalem-girl

Wed, Jul 01 2009, 2:06 pm

With more research, some more clarification. Knowledge is power.
1)The Mir. Basically, there are different shiurim, some with more supervision than others. Some are so tough, that if a bochur comes a few minutes late, he has to give an accounting of what he was doing the previous night. His parents will be informed if he is not keeping up to par.
The reason Mir has gotten a name as unsupervised, is because if a parent does not make sure that the bochur is in a good shiur, or any shiur at all, he could do whatever he wants. Meaning, in other words, that he is not really part of the yeshiva, except that he may learn in one of their many buildings. If someone says he is in the Mir, it means little. If he says which shiur he goes to, you know what kind of yeshiva he's in.
Basically, parents should know what goes on here, and choose a yeshiva/ shiur accordingly.
2)The electrical outage was not caused by the protest. I'm really sorry for having assumed it was. The bochrim on the street thought they had caused it by the fire, and we assumed that they had, but it was actually construction in the neighborhood. I feel terrible that I was not dan l'kaf zechus.

ora_43

Wed, Jul 01 2009, 2:29 pm

shoy-
There are plenty of rabbis calling for the violence and destruction to stop. Not all teenage boys listen to their rabbis all of the time.

jerusalem-girl-
I agree with you on education, although I don't think it's quite that easy (to teach kids to be respectful, that is). But I completely disagree on "supervision." At some point, parents have to let their kids go off into the real world. Policing them into their 20s and beyond (or until they marry and their lucky wives get the job of "supervising") is not a reasonable solution, IMO. Also, while it may reign in some of the wilder young men (albeit without improving their middot in any real way), how will the other 90-something percent of bochurim feel, being treated like potential criminals by their own parents and schools?

jerusalem-girl

Wed, Jul 01 2009, 4:01 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Ideally, supervision should be internal. It's called yiras shamayim. It's asking yourself, "Is this what G-d wants from me now? Do I want to see a video of myself behaving this way after 120 years?"

I can't say my internal supervision is all that good. I'm working on it, but it's far from perfect. I cannot have unfiltered internet, or be with a man, other than relation or dh, and trust myself.

There is such a thing as a 'geder', gate literally, that every human being needs. If a bochur is serious (and I mean personality serious) he may need less gedarim, not because he is better, but because his personality protects him. Still someone needs to be accountable for him. Someone has to make sure at the very minimum, that he is keeping to the zemanim.

Then there are bochrim that enjoy fun and sometimes do things they later regret because of the immediacy of their enjoyment. These bochrim should not be unsupervised. There are wonderful yeshivas that give bochrim physical outlets. That is one consideration. Another is that these bochrim, instead of burning and destroying should get involved in askanus such as hatzolah or shomrim or I.D.F. service.(The talmud says, if one is born with murderous tendencies, he should become a mohel/doctor. You have to know yourself) The final idea is, if the bochur does have a taava to get involved in fun, but can control himself, he should be in a yeshiva that is closely supervised. (Yeshivas that are in quiet moshavim or smaller cities work best.) He will not just be 'reigned over', but will learn that he could have a mighty good time farbrenging with other bochrim. He will enjoy his learning, because he won't be, can't be, up to too late at night. He will make sincere friends. He will enjoy walking or biking in the quiet countryside, or alternatively, listening to the noise of the nearby chicken coop.
I am not suggesting anything about the action of other bochrim, but if one is supervised he cannot drink, watch inappropriate media, meet with other gender, etc. The training will be in essence a form of chinuch, and when the supervision isn't there, there are already things ingrained in him that he does not do.
Parents have to know their sons, chanoch l'naar al pi darco. They also have to know the options open to them in various different yeshivos. And they must know the situation of the city they are sending their sons to live in, with what type of friends.
Parents have to care enough to do all the research, and then listen out for signals of distress, from their own sons, or from people that keep tabs on him.