Name calling | Imamother

jerusalem-girl

Tue, Jul 28 2009, 7:00 pm

The 'starving mom' case is as confusing as ever, and I have no idea what to think.
Here in the chareidi communities, signs are up about Hadassah, the Jerusalem mayor, Barkat, the police, the matzav, etc.
Hadassah doctors are Dr. Mengele.
The Israeli police are Zionistic and Naziistic and the KGB (With an emphasis on Zionist, that's the worst Rolling Eyes

)
The accusation against this woman was a blood libel.
The Israeli govt.'s archives of evil deeds are being opened, on the streets, the Teimani children, etc.

I do not wonder about the effectiveness of such anger. Obviously, it takes two to tango. If your claim is that 'they' (the chilonim, of course) hate us, it definately won't help, if you hate them back.
We learnt, in Mishlei, "tell a Rasha that he is a Tzaddik, and he will amend his ways." Not exact quote, I'm not sure of it. Point being, tell him how much you love him, how much you believe in him, how good, in essence he is, and he will live it up.

My question is another one. Are we allowed to compare Jews, even bad Jews, to the worst of our enemies? And is it morally fair to compare?
For example, the Israeli police are blamed for violence. But is it fair to compare their actions, which are basically reactions to riots and violence on the other side, to Nazism and the KGB? As far as I'm concerned, beating up someone who threw a rock is not as morally culpable as raping women, tossing children to the ground...., and of course, blatant murder. In fact, I don't know how someone, a Jewish someone, can compare.
But what ticked me off was how people compared Hadassah doctors to Dr. Mengele. How could they???? Assuming I believe the story that the doctors experimented on the child, how could they compare trying to figure out what the child's unknown disease was, by experimenting with differnt treatments to Dr. Mengele, yemach shemo v'zichro??????
I think that these people are either misinformed and should take a trip to Yad Vashem (Oops, can't go there, there's an Isreali flag flying.), or are morally obtuse.

jerusalem-girl

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 2:54 am

The poll shows that most responders feel it is unfair to compare a greater evil to a lesser wrong.
2 responders, so far, do feel that it is O.K. to draw a comparison.
I'm just curious, can you please explain yourselves?
Do you feel that if I spank my child (I don't), in a moment of anger, I can be compared to David Pelczer's Mom (A Child Called It) or possibly a Nazi?

mimivan

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 3:58 am

I think part of it really depends on who is innocent and who is guilty and I for one have stopped forming theories.

I have seen this kind of language in other cases. There were two Jews involved in a violent dispute and one claimed he never hit the other and that the accuser was making a "blood libel."

now, IMHO saying "blood libel" is a bit extreme.

However, when Disengagement happened, a friend of mine said, in her anger and disgust "These Israeli soldiers are behaving like Nazis. Or worse, because they are doing this to their brothers and should know better."

I just couldn't argue with my friend in her grief. I was grieved, shocked appalled as well. While, 4 years on, I would not compare such soldiers to Nazis...But...I can understand the overwhelming feelings a person has when the wounds are fresh and partly as a way to shame the soldiers who carried this out...

so out of grief, when wounds are fresh and when the case is severe, I could understand such a comparison out of a passion to shame the people involved.

And if they were really doing sick experiments...shame on them...Mengele? I don't know...I can't pretend to know who is innocent or guilty in this...such language might be called for, but in very extreme cases.

Last edited by mimivan on Wed, Jul 29 2009, 4:10 am; edited 1 time in total

Seraph

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 4:39 am

I wouldnt name call because I don't think its fair.

However, as mimivan said, people going through the disengagement compared the soldiers to nazis, following orders that were evil and hurting jews.
Whereas I wouldnt make the comparison myself, I understand if people who are directly involved feel the comparison and hence "name call". They're doing so out of pain.

However, outsiders, to whom it is not directly related to, have no right to name call.
JMHO.

jerusalem-girl

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 11:08 am

freidasima wrote:

I don't like the use of such words, they cheapen the original.
A blood libel is just that, the Holocaust was just that, and a pogrom was just that.

Use other words, the english, Hebrew, yiddish and other languages abound with them.

I agree with that. Comparing anything or anyone to Nazis, makes it sound like they were nice gentlemen who occasionally got on your wrong side.
I don't know about using other words, though....

jerusalem-girl

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 11:15 am

Mimivan and Seraph, you're right. I think I should have put in another option for people that were personally involved or hurt.

However, I would expect mature adults to calm down some time after the trauma and see that the comparisons weren't fair. As in the example of the Disengagement, and I happen to be very opposed to the whole concession business, throwing people out of their homes is not quite where the Nazis stopped. So I understand if someone, at the Hitnatkut, yelled "Nazi." I don't think it is terrific, but I understand. Afterwards, however, hopefully they're not thinking that Israeli police have to be chased to the end of the Earth to pay for their crimes....