Lighting an extra candle Friday night

Thu, Aug 06 2009, 12:24 pm

If a woman has 2 kids is it a problem for her to light 5 candles Friday night? THis might sound stupid but all candlesticks being sold are sold either in sets of 2 or candelabras with 5 candle holders. We are trying to get a gift for someone and I don't know if I need to ask a shayla...

shalhevet

Thu, Aug 06 2009, 12:26 pm

You can light as many candles as you like (at least two). But if someone starts lighting more than two (for whatever reason) she should say it's bli neder - otherwise it might be she can't stop.

acccdac

Thu, Aug 06 2009, 12:32 pm

personally, I light 2 candlesticks, and put my candelabra in front of my candlesticks, light 2 on the candleable and that makes 4

IY"H by my next I'll like add the middle of my candleabra

until a year ago I use to light 4 from my candleabra and just leave the center (the 5th) empty. I now have my mother's candlesticks so thats why I changed it.

I got a candlelabra from my inlaws not sticks becuase by the time we got around to choosing one I already had 1 child, so we figured if we need more than 5 then we'll invest in adding sticks to the combination.

Sherri

Thu, Aug 06 2009, 12:34 pm

I don't know the answer halachically, but I do know of a family with only two kids and their leichter has a silver piece that they put on top of the middle candle to make it look like it only has 4 candles and a decorative stem in middle. It looks great- hope you understand what I mean.

Fox

Fri, Aug 07 2009, 12:25 pm

shalhevet wrote:

You can light as many candles as you like (at least two). But if someone starts lighting more than two (for whatever reason) she should say it's bli neder - otherwise it might be she can't stop.

That's my understanding, too!

BTW, my DH once asked a well-known Litvish rebbetzin in Israel (who had grown up in Europe) about the custom of lighting a candle for each member of the family. She laughed and said, "No, we lit as many as there were spaces in our leichters or as many as we could afford up to that number." I don't know if that was the practice elsewhere, too, but the Rebbetzin seemed to feel that the emphasis on the number of family members was a distinctly American custom.

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Aug 07 2009, 12:33 pm

Actually, I don't think it's American.
(Maybe it's Chassidish? Kabbalistically lighting for a neshama == ner?)
It started as a geder in case one forgot to light when she gave birth and had to add on a light as a "kapara" for missing a Shabbos.
My mother lights 3 candles because she did miss a Shabbos, but not for each child.

Fri, Aug 07 2009, 12:34 pm

Thank you everybody. In the end I had my dh ask a Rav who was perplexed that there are no candelabra with 4 branches (why aren't there?!) but didn't make it sound like an extra candle would be a problem.

And Fox, I head (from R"Sobolofsky of YU) that the reason women light an extra candle for each child is as follows. There is a halacha (???) that if you ever miss lighting one shabbos, you need to add another candle for all the consequent shabbosim. So when a woman had a baby it makes sense that she was often either in the hospital or in bed the following shabbos, and therefore would miss lighting that week. Afterwards she would need to add a candle. Just relating what I heard, which does make sense...

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Aug 07 2009, 12:36 pm

L'maisa, I light for each child as my mother in law does since I think it's beautiful, but by no means ask to if I ever light elsewhere.
My grandmother lit 4 candles, as did her mother. Both had 2 kids, but no one is sure if they lit because of that or because that's what they did. So I don't know what minhag we have or not, but I figured it's a nice thing to do though I am very against the reasoning behind it being a "must".
I have 2 candelabras -- they were my great-grandmother's and I got them as the first one married from my grandmother's grandchildren.
The tops come out, so I used them as 2 candlesticks when first married.
When I had my first, I put away one stick, put the 3 branched top on one, and lit 3.
When I had my second, I took out the second stick from storage and lit a candelabra and one stick.
With 3 kids now, I light both candelabras, but leave one empty. I don't think there is anything wrong with leaving one empty.

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Aug 07 2009, 12:38 pm

SV wrote:

The problem is it has to meet certain criteria (shogeig? not backside? or am I mixing things up)...being in the hospital with no candle access doesn't require adding on a candle, which is why I think this reasoning is bunk and was started in error.
One needs to do it because they got involved in other things and missed zman hadlaka or what not, knowing it was shabbos and could have and should have lit.

cassandra

Fri, Aug 07 2009, 12:42 pm

My mother doesn't light for each child, but for some reason has a big candelabra anyway, I do it because I think it's cute and because I have the candelabra anyway. When I had one kid I just left the other 2 empty, and when I had two kids I left the other one empty, filled it up with my third and had to get a candlestick for my fourth.

Halachically you fulfill candle lighting with even one, but the minhag has developed to do two (which further developed into one for each child).

sky

Fri, Aug 07 2009, 12:54 pm

I light just two no matter what - that is dh's family minhag. And when I'm in the hospital after giving birth I was told plugging in an electric candle is okay and dh lights for me at home and has me in mind so I never miss lighting and have to make it up (even in my own home I turn on the dining room light before lighting and have it in mind when I make the bracha also - because that is where the main source of the light in the room is from - and if the candles go out - which they have - I still have fulfilled the mitzvah with the room light. )

I do know someone who lights 5 candles every week - even with no kids - that is her mother's minhag. I know that she asked the same rav as me - who holds candles go according to the dh's minhag. But she wanted to do it so much that he said it was okay.