Sharing/Cleaning Up - I need advice (sorry long)

YALT

Thu, Sep 24 2009, 1:33 am

I need some advice.
We'll be spending all the yomim tovim (RH, YK, full Sukkos) at my sister's house.It cannot be rearranged at this point. So please don't tell me to. My problem is this:
DS doesn't like cleaning up after himself, as well as he doesn't like sharing something that he wants then. Whether he had it first, or his younger cousin. At home, I have a check chart, which at times works wonders, and at other times it does absolutely zilch. And then I end up cleaning his toys.
I tried taking away his toys for a week at a time. It doesn't bother him. He'll sit & drive me crazy, but when the week is over (or the 2 days like I roiginally did) he forgets how bored he is without them, and refuses to put them away. In fact, he offers me permission to put them away ontop.
Over RH, my sister at times would bribe the kids to clean up (bec. it was the mess of the shul guests) with a treat. I showed it to him b4, and told him that "L,M,G,A&Y will be getting this because they're cleaning so nicely, and Yudi can also have if he cleans up nicely." I kept reminding him, but he totally was not interested. Once they got the treat, he cried for 2 minutes that he wanted. I told him that maybe next time he cleans up he'll be able to have, but that right now there wasn't anything else to clean up. 2 hours later, we were having them clean up again, and I kept showing him the candy & said "remember before you couldn't have? well, now is your chance. Let's see how nicely you can clean up."
NOT INTERRESTED!
He just said "nope" & continued playing.
I think my sister is getting frustrated with us being there just because of this issue. But I don't know what to do to get him to do his part.
The other thing is that he has a cousin almost a year younger than him who is also very stubborn. He is constantly either wanting what Yudi has, or wanting to destroy what Yudi's playing with. Like messing up the traintrack he just built. But I know that at times Yudi takes things away from YT as well. At which point I make him return it. I think this kid has had it quite tough the past year, which made him more stubborn than his genes made him. (He's almost 3, and has a baby who kept his parents QUITE busy for 7 months.)
BTW, Yudi is 3½.

Any solutions?
I bought him an addition to his train tracks, to bribe him that if he gets enough checks while we are by his cousins, then he'll be able to have it. But something tells me he won't be interested. He's already showing signs of disinterest, and we're not even there yet!

levial

Thu, Sep 24 2009, 5:53 am

Wow, this is rough. It's so age appropriate, yet as parents we know we have to do something. The other issue is understanding of time and consequence at his age. They forget...they don't care,they move on.

A few thoughts.

DD is 4 and is competitive. I say "I can put more blocks away ha ha" and she starts up and tries to do all herself. Sometimes when she's tired, I say, "Let's clean up together, since I was playing too." or "You do 2 and I do 2." But mostly the law of the land is you clean up before starting another major activity. I prevent her from getting the whole play room in disarray. "FIrst put the puzzle away, then the blocks can come out" and end of day everything in its place. non negotiable like brushing teeth or saying shema.

When there are several kids and a babysitting or play room, it's a bit tougher. I usually tell the kids it's clean up time and then praise the ones who start the first. I also help the littler ones pick something they can "clean up." So I might say "Park the big truck by the wall" versus "clean up the kitchen area" - and make bigger tasks a game. . . 'let's do the veggies, then the fruits..." The clean up song she hears at school is enough to get her going usually.

As far as sharing...I'm an only child, so I had to really get help in this area. My mom used to have "her" toys. If I wasn't sharing, her toys came out and my playdate guest would get to play but not me. If I decided to share, then the "new Mom's toys that I never play with" were shared. So I'd make the train addition Mommy's and share it with whomever is sharing nicely.

YALT

Thu, Sep 24 2009, 8:49 am

Thanks for taking the time to help me.
Some things have already been tried. But I will try the competitive way. In order for me to make sure he doesn't take out another toy b4 the first is cleaned up, I would need to sit next to him the whole time. Which would mean I wouldn't be able to help my sister much in the kitchen like I wanted to.
With group cleanup, we tried praising the kids who were cleaning, as well as bribe with new toy and candy! Nothing worked! We also tried telling him specifics. He would just shrug his shoulders.

Sharing, I like that idea. I do have something that works at home, (I told him that the toys are Mommy's and Mommy likes sharing her toys with Yudi, and with Gitty, and all his friends.) although for some reason in my sister's house, I guess all the toys are so exciting, that he doesn't want to share. And neither does his cousin.
So when we finally solve 1 fight, tyhe next is already brewing.
1 thing I got into his head is that everyone is allowed 2 trains - no more. If you have more than 2, you need to give one to another kid. Since that is his favorite toy, it cut the fighting in half. But there's still the other half to deal with.

Thanks for your suggestions.
Anyone else have anything to add?

Rivkyel

Wed, Sep 30 2009, 9:26 am

Yom tov is always a stressful time especially since the kids are on top of each other all the time. Just a few tips (from a mother of ds of similar temprament): 1. try to give the kids a variety of play areas so they are not on top of each other the whole time-take them outside, go for a walk, divide the playing areas so some kids are in the play area-others in a living room... 2. make the play time more structured- play some games with them (kind of like leading a preschool class) as well as free time 3. bring some tchotchkes with you to make things more exciting (for yom kippur, I went to the dollar store and bought a bag of 12 bouncy balls, some magnifying glasses, jump ropes...the kids had a great time.

as for clean-up...my ds is the same way (except that he's 8!). What works for him is that I made up a cleanup game called "corners"-each kid goes into a corner. I say on your marks get sets go and each kid runs to the middle to see how much they can clean up by the time I count to 30 (or whatever # I set). The trick is that they have to be back in the corner by the time I finish counting or I "gobble them up"-they only get gobbled up if they've been cleaning. I do this for several rounds. Be creative-try to think of other clean-up games that he might enjoy.

I hope that this helps you. The bottom line is to remember that your ds is still pretty young and will not necessarily understand long-term punishments. Just take cleanup as a learning process and slowly you will see improvement.