Parents who abuse their children

amother

Wed, Feb 24 2010, 10:26 pm

I wonder, do parents who abused their kids get punished in Olem Haba? Afterall there'w no mitzvah of kibud banim...or is there?

5S5Sr7z3

Wed, Feb 24 2010, 10:28 pm

No, there is no such mitzva, but I would think abuse would go into the category of killing, cuz basically that's what these parents are doing. Ridiculing kids = shaming them, etc. Some people shouldnt be allowed to reproduce IMHO.

life'sgreat

Wed, Feb 24 2010, 10:47 pm

I would think that they do get punished just like any other human being that hurts another. Hurting someone, harming, shaming, hitting is all assur AFAIK. While parents have a chiyuv to be mechanech their children, I don't think anyone thinks abuse is chinuch.

sneakermom

Wed, Feb 24 2010, 10:54 pm

They are causing a child with a neshamah deep pain and Hashem feels their pain and there is a price to pay for that.

Chloe

Wed, Feb 24 2010, 11:25 pm

No, there is no mitzvah for kibbud bonim but there doesn't need to be. There are plenty of mitzvahs under Bein Adam Lachaveiro which are violated by being abusive especially when it comes to children.

mimivan

Wed, Feb 24 2010, 11:39 pm

First of all, the term "abuse" is very broad and could include even saying something very unkind to a child in a moment of anger..
I am sure that more than 50% of parents have done this at least once...
like any other kinds of aveiros, and even those done often by people, like bittul Torah and anger and quarreling with others and lashon hara, one has to do teshuvah...and perhaps the person's fate in Olam Obah will depend on how much teshuvah he or she does.

Some people are more prone to anger than others. But those who have angry natures should not be prevented from having kids (as one poster above suggested..because after all, Hashem gave this person an angry nature and at the same time gave him the mitzva of pru avru and the biological ability to have children. Which proves that Hashem knows the person can potentially learn to be a good parent.)...but should be extra careful to learn positive parenting techniques.

and people who have made errors and maybe have a natural inclination toward anger or were abused themselves or had health problems should get the help they need and do teshuvah and get support.

HOw in the world would any of us know what someone gets in Olam HaBah!!! that's up to the abishter!!
Each Jew needs to do her own Hishtadlus (and we can't know based on behavior alone because we don't konw what kind of dispositions/problems this person was given)...

I'm not lenient on child abuse chas v'shalom, but I think we are being a bit disingenuous if we are talking only about extreme cases, since even a mean look can be devastating for a child..and all parents have what to improve!

life'sgreat

Wed, Feb 24 2010, 11:54 pm

[quote="mimivan"
I'm not lenient on child abuse chas v'shalom, but I think we are being a bit disingenuous if we are talking only about extreme cases, since even a mean look can be devastating for a child..and all parents have what to improve![/quote]I honestly don't think the OP was talking about a mean look, devastating or not.

Merrymom

Thu, Feb 25 2010, 12:00 am

My BIL is a Rav and he quotes from this sefer although I can't remember the name that parents will have to give din v'cheshbon (answer for their actions in the next world) for every time they allowed their baby to cry so I can only infer from this that yes, they certainly will be punished to some extents unless they get punished here first.

mimivan

Thu, Feb 25 2010, 12:02 am

but she would want to include emotional and verbal abuse, and in olam haba we are held accountable for each individual mitzvah or aveira...

in this world we tend to take a more black and white view, and tend to characterize ourselves and each other as "good parents" or "bad parents" or "abusive parents" but in olam haba, we need to make an accounting of each individual thing we have done..and I doubt the blanket characterizations will be so relevant anymore
obviously a mamash abusive parent will have more to "pay for" if they were fully aware of what they were doing and were not mentally ill..

but there is a whole range of good and not so good parenting and many people make mistakes (I.e. like saying something we regret in anger)....

mimivan

Thu, Feb 25 2010, 12:06 am

Although Shlomo HaMelech says "spare the rod, spoil the child" (a pasuk often on the lips of abusers) the rod means "placing limits" and not chas v'shalom to beat with a rod (as in "thy rod and they staff they comfort me..." I.e. a shepherd uses the rod to guide the sheep).. (dont' remember where I learned this interpretation but..)

but I often wonder about someone who abuses who misunderstands this because of the bad parenting of parents who tel him this is what it says in the Bible...How accountable is this person? Even though he/she harms others? It is a tough question I think only the Abishter will have to judge case by case.

it says in hilchos of kibbud Av v'Aim that a parent should not place too many demands on his children so he shouldn't create a stumbling block for the child...

Ruchel

Fri, Feb 26 2010, 9:54 am

Hitting is not abuse, beating is. There are halachos about this and some rabbanim still speak for such punishments (rav Poultorak was a gadol who said it was an educative tool, more on the search engine.. not for me, but many hold that way).