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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
Can you be 'bought' for the right price?
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No, never. I am true to my ideals. |
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45% |
[ 22 ] |
Sure, if the price is right |
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14% |
[ 7 ] |
I don't think so, but I may waver if the opportunity arose |
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27% |
[ 13 ] |
I can be bought, but only to increase my observance level, no decrease |
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6% |
[ 3 ] |
I already have changed my change my lifestyle for financial, materialistic or social gains |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
other |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
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Total Votes : 48 |
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Ima2NYM_LTR
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 9:55 am
On another thread someone said
Quote: | And almost everyone can be bought for the right price | in reference to giving up aspects of Yiddishkiet for a good job/more money/fame.
So, how about you. Can you be 'bought' for the right price? Would you ever change your lifestyle for financial, materialistic or social gains? (this does not include changes in personal beliefs unaffected by outside considerations)
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saw50st8
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 9:59 am
Yes. I know I can.
Does that make me a bad person? The price is too steep to be practical though.
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Ima2NYM_LTR
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:10 am
I can say honestly no. DH is jobless right now and was offered a great job and he accepted, only to have it pulled away because he would have be on-call (IT work, not medical) for 16 Shabboses a year, which he refused to do. He did not compromise his ideals for this much needed job.
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saw50st8
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:14 am
Ima2NYM_LTR wrote: | I can say honestly no. DH is jobless right now and was offered a great job and he accepted, only to have it pulled away because he would have be on-call (IT work, not medical) for 16 Shabboses a year, which he refused to do. He did not compromise his ideals for this much needed job. |
I couldn't be bought for that either.
But I think an extreme amount of money is different. And it also depends what it is.
I would never sleep with another man for any money.
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saw50st8
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:25 am
ChossidMom wrote: | But you would eat pork |
In theory, yes.
Find the $50 million and we'll talk :-)
I don't think most people who sell themselves out for small amounts. But lets take something that's not so wrong. What about if someone offered you a lot of money to do something that is allowed by some rabbonim but your rabbi says no? But it would mean your husband could learn full time for the rest of his life. Would you eat CS or wear a sheitel or show a tefach of hair?
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MommyZ
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:27 am
saw50st8 wrote: | ChossidMom wrote: | But you would eat pork |
In theory, yes.
Find the $50 million and we'll talk :-)
I don't think most people who sell themselves out for small amounts. But lets take something that's not so wrong. What about if someone offered you a lot of money to do something that is allowed by some rabbonim but your rabbi says no? But it would mean your husband could learn full time for the rest of his life. Would you eat CS or wear a sheitel or show a tefach of hair? |
No b/c my dh would work for the sake of working b/c it says sheshes yomim ta'avod. On the other hand he says when the cash is on the table most people can be bought and the price is a lot less then they or you would think.
We eat CS anyway you don't have to pay me to do it and I have no trouble uncovering a tefach of hair. The response would be the same for things that I don't do.
Last edited by MommyZ on Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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shalhevet
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:29 am
saw50st8 wrote: | ChossidMom wrote: | But you would eat pork |
In theory, yes.
Find the $50 million and we'll talk :-)
I don't think most people who sell themselves out for small amounts. But lets take something that's not so wrong. What about if someone offered you a lot of money to do something that is allowed by some rabbonim but your rabbi says no? But it would mean your husband could learn full time for the rest of his life. Would you eat CS or wear a sheitel or show a tefach of hair? |
What value would learning have that was "bought" with an issur? (OK, I'd wear a sheitel - how much are you offering? Actually, I'll wear a sheitel without you offering anything. ) A person has to give all their possessions not to transgress an issur, never mind losing money they never had.
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ChossidMom
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:35 am
If 1000 rabbonim say that I'm allowed to do something but my Rebbe says I may not, I wouldn't do it.
(BTW this is not a theoretical question for me. My rebbe does not allow certain forms of birth control that many charedi rabbonim do)
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Ruchel
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:35 am
I would lower my standards, I suppose I could be tempted to do anything that has even a minority opinion tolerating if there is enough money. But I would not go "all assur".
Now, thinking again, with a child I would not lower as much as I would if I hadn't kids yet.
I remember reading something (what? where?) that if you would give away 1/5 (or 1/4?) of your possessions to not keep mitzva X, you could go without. I was very shocked. Anyone read about it?
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saw50st8
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:36 am
shalhevet wrote: | saw50st8 wrote: | ChossidMom wrote: | But you would eat pork |
In theory, yes.
Find the $50 million and we'll talk :-)
I don't think most people who sell themselves out for small amounts. But lets take something that's not so wrong. What about if someone offered you a lot of money to do something that is allowed by some rabbonim but your rabbi says no? But it would mean your husband could learn full time for the rest of his life. Would you eat CS or wear a sheitel or show a tefach of hair? |
What value would learning have that was "bought" with an issur? (OK, I'd wear a sheitel - how much are you offering? Actually, I'll wear a sheitel without you offering anything. ) A person has to give all their possessions not to transgress an issur, never mind losing money they never had. |
Think about all the business men who cheat, lie and steal. All for more money.
And yes, I agree with the halacha aspect. I think people can be bought for the right price. Its a matter of finding the right price. The right price for each person or each transgression is different.
Would you eat pork if someone threatened to kill your child instead? I would in a heartbeat. For $50? No way.
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Ruchel
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:38 am
It is a MITSVA to transgress most mitsvos to save a life.
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shalhevet
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:43 am
saw50st8 wrote: | shalhevet wrote: | saw50st8 wrote: | ChossidMom wrote: | But you would eat pork |
In theory, yes.
Find the $50 million and we'll talk :-)
I don't think most people who sell themselves out for small amounts. But lets take something that's not so wrong. What about if someone offered you a lot of money to do something that is allowed by some rabbonim but your rabbi says no? But it would mean your husband could learn full time for the rest of his life. Would you eat CS or wear a sheitel or show a tefach of hair? |
What value would learning have that was "bought" with an issur? (OK, I'd wear a sheitel - how much are you offering? Actually, I'll wear a sheitel without you offering anything. ) A person has to give all their possessions not to transgress an issur, never mind losing money they never had. |
Think about all the business men who cheat, lie and steal. All for more money.
And yes, I agree with the halacha aspect. I think people can be bought for the right price. Its a matter of finding the right price. The right price for each person or each transgression is different. |
What you are writing here is a poor reflection on the people you know. I can't imagine most of the people I know who truly believe in Hashem and His Torah, doing this.
I know lots of people who would never cheat, lie and steal. Not even for 50 milllion dollars.
But of those who do, I still don't think most of them would be willing to do an aveira for a price - the reason they cheat is because they convince themselves that what they are doing is okay - if you said to them 'break the Torah for a million dollars' using such language, they wouldn't do it.
Quote: | Would you eat pork if someone threatened to kill your child instead? I would in a heartbeat. For $50? No way. |
There are halachic conditions for it - I hope in a time of shmad, ch"v, I would be strong enough to keep halacha. Most of the time it's under the heading of pikuach nefesh.
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saw50st8
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:52 am
Everything written here is really black and white and its easy to say "No I would never do that!" But then the situation comes up and its a lot easier to talk yourself into it, the same way lying business men do. Its a tiny piece of pork (or forget pork, how about Hebrew National that has shechita but we don't hold by) and think of all the good it can do! It can feed so many poor people and it can support torah and yeshiva education. And really, would Hashem give me this opportunity to do so much good and then be so upset? I mean, I've never eaten pork before and never will again but seriously? Think of all the cholim I could help!
You think that wouldn't be very tempting? In the right situation?
And sure there are situations of pikuach nefesh, but I'm honest enough to say I would bow down to an idol to save my child. Whether or not halacha says otherwise.
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shalhevet
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:54 am
saw50st8 wrote: | Everything written here is really black and white and its easy to say "No I would never do that!" But then the situation comes up and its a lot easier to talk yourself into it, the same way lying business men do. Its a tiny piece of pork (or forget pork, how about Hebrew National that has shechita but we don't hold by) and think of all the good it can do! It can feed so many poor people and it can support torah and yeshiva education. And really, would Hashem give me this opportunity to do so much good and then be so upset? I mean, I've never eaten pork before and never will again but seriously? Think of all the cholim I could help!
You think that wouldn't be very tempting? In the right situation?
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No.
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Ruchel
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:56 am
Shechita we don't hold by? I'm not sure there is one, but if there is one, I would do it (I assume it's Orthodox because I never heard of non orthodox shechita).
I'm not sure those poor people and cholim would like being helped with a (straight) avera. And they won't like it for sure after 120 when their neshama has been "perfected".
Learning with even one stolen nail in the house doesn't benefit anyone, it says. I guess it's the same for another avera?
Quote: | would Hashem give me this opportunity to do so much good and then be so upset? |
Yes, it's called a test.
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saw50st8
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 10:56 am
shalhevet wrote: | saw50st8 wrote: | Everything written here is really black and white and its easy to say "No I would never do that!" But then the situation comes up and its a lot easier to talk yourself into it, the same way lying business men do. Its a tiny piece of pork (or forget pork, how about Hebrew National that has shechita but we don't hold by) and think of all the good it can do! It can feed so many poor people and it can support torah and yeshiva education. And really, would Hashem give me this opportunity to do so much good and then be so upset? I mean, I've never eaten pork before and never will again but seriously? Think of all the cholim I could help!
You think that wouldn't be very tempting? In the right situation?
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No. |
Then lets hope you get the offer and not me :-)
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ChossidMom
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 11:08 am
Ruchel wrote: |
Quote: | would Hashem give me this opportunity to do so much good and then be so upset? |
Yes, it's called a test. |
Exactly
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Ruchel
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 11:11 am
"If Hashem didn't want me to do X, he wouldn't put X near me", is a trick of the yetzer hara. Also "I'll lose X if I don't do Y avera". I don't judge those who give in because many great people did (think of those who were frum but were afraid to starve if they didn't work on shabbes - nowadays bh it's different in the young generation). But it's a trick of the yetzer hara.
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saw50st8
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Mon, Sep 13 2010, 11:13 am
ChossidMom wrote: | Ruchel wrote: |
Quote: | would Hashem give me this opportunity to do so much good and then be so upset? |
Yes, it's called a test. |
Exactly |
I said this was rationalization. I didn't say this was the right way to think.
Part of the problem is we are talking large scale also. Lets talk small scale.
Money is tight but you need new pants for your son for yom tov. You find a great pair! The store offers if you pay cash, then no tax because they aren't going to report it. So you save money which is great because its tough to pay the bill for this. You pay cash KNOWING she won't report it.
Not so simple anymore right? Because there are so many Jewsih businesses who do this.
Maybe its easier to sell morals that "don't seem so bad" for small amounts of money. Now I need to think a bit.
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