Is this considered Hachana on Shabbos?

mommalah

Tue, Jan 25 2011, 5:04 pm

I'm no Rabbi but I can't see what the problem would be. Friday night and Shabbos day are the same day. If you can do dishes Friday night for Shabbos day, the I'd think you can do whatever to prepare for Shabbos day meal.
It is definitely hachana when you prepare Wednesday morning on Pesach for Wednesday night's meal.

Depressed

Tue, Jan 25 2011, 5:11 pm

My husband said its fine, its the same Shabbos. You can even set up for melava malka on shabbos if there is a very slim chance guests will come over while its still Shabbos

PinkFridge

Tue, Jan 25 2011, 6:40 pm

CYLOR but I think that that's fine. The only problem is if borer comes up, I.e. you have to separate cutlery to be able to set the table. That then you should only put on closer to the actual seudah time.

shalhevet

Tue, Jan 25 2011, 11:26 pm

Yes, there's no problem with hachana (since it's still for the same Shabbos). The problem is with borer (sorting). If you have a pile of mixed cutlery/ plates etc you can only put each one in its place (taking the one you want each time) around half an hour before the seuda (CYLOR for the exact amount of time). But if everything is in separate piles I can't see the problem.

The setting up for MM - everyone should ask their own rav, I'm not sure that opinion is widely accepted. You can only clean up from SS if it's close to night if you need the table or the mess bothers you.

busydev

Thu, Jan 27 2011, 9:42 am

dont think its hachana

but can I ask- im assuming it wouldnt be borer if you have the silverware and plates sorted. I usually dont have that many guests that I dont have enough silverware in the drawer for shabbos day and even shalos seudos.

So if my silverware is seperated in a drawer that has sections it should be fine, no?
(in case I ever decide to set the table fri night)

busydev

Thu, Jan 27 2011, 11:01 am

if I ever decide to set the table friday night I guess I will ask- but now im asking more hypothetical.

if all my dishes and cutlery are 100% sorted before shabbos (plates are stacked in piles of only one size in a pile, cutlery is in seperate sections in a drawer) would I (hypothetically acc to imamothers vasy knowledge) be able to set?

Or is it a borer issue no matter?

chocolate moose

Thu, Jan 27 2011, 11:40 am

I don't think so. Because even if you weren't sorting silverware, as in if the stuff was all chunked togther and you dump it out, and take what you need as you need it, it's not allowed.

amother

Thu, Jan 27 2011, 11:51 am

am I allowed to put the dirty dishes from fri night meal in the dishwasher to store untill after shabbos?

Thu, Jan 27 2011, 5:17 pm

It could be considered separating if your cutlery is all together (dirty) and you put it into different compartments in the dishwasher. Plus, what if you accidentally press the buttons when you close it back up?

Ema of 5

Thu, Jan 27 2011, 5:30 pm

amother wrote:

am I allowed to put the dirty dishes from fri night meal in the dishwasher to store untill after shabbos?

we asked, and we were told that you can put it in, but not set it up to wash after shabbos- meaning you can stack things up inside, but not put them in the propper slots.

im missing something about the silverware- if each one is in its own holder, why would that be borer? I take my big forks and I hold them in one finger, I take my little forks in another, and I take my knives in my other hand. the stacks never get mixed up because they are separated. would that still be something that might be a problem?

amother

Thu, Jan 27 2011, 6:08 pm

what do you mean put it in but not set it up? What do you do with your dirty dishes then on shabbos afternoon?

CherryBerry

Thu, Jan 27 2011, 7:09 pm

I learned you should put the dirty dishes in a pile on the dishwasher drawer, such that after shabbos you need to take out all the dishes and reorganize it properly.

so you get to hide your dishes but not save you time cleaning up Motzei shabbos.

I dont see any problem with taking out organized cutlery and setting the table with it. if there is no choosing, there is no borer!

Ema of 5

Thu, Jan 27 2011, 7:26 pm

CherryBerry wrote:

exactly- you can stack them, but not set them up. I used to use my dishwasher on friday night, but when we moved it got put in the basement, so now I use my oven instead Smile

Ema of 5

Thu, Jan 27 2011, 7:31 pm

amother wrote:

what do you mean put it in but not set it up? What do you do with your dirty dishes then on shabbos afternoon?

sorry, I missed the second part of your question. my oven is big enough that I can usually pput the dishes from both meals inside. I put the top rack all the way on the top notch and the bottom rack all the way on the bottom (thats how I have it set up friday night so my soup will fit in) after we finish the soup on friday night I empty the pot and fill it with soap and water (I asked- im allowed) and put all the silverware in, and I leave that on the back of the stove top. anything that there isnt room for either goes into the dishwasher or stays in the sink.