Can you define MO?

Capitalchick

Sun, Mar 27 2011, 5:17 pm

Doesn't anyone else feel the need to include information about the philosophical basis for the MO lifestyle? The first definition of the MO lifestyle in this thread is quite good, but I think it's also really important to offer info about the leading Rabbis who've shaped the MO world. For that, I think Wikipedia does a great job.

The reason I think it's so important to include this kind of philosophical background info, is because if people only read the "MO do this, but don't do this" type of definitions, I find that many just get the impression that MO is about 'picking and choosing', rather than based on fundamentally different understandings/interpretations of halacha. We don't NOT cover our hair with a wig because we can't be bothered, but rather because many of feel that there is good reason NOT to do so (just as an example, and of course there are some that would/do cover with a wig).

OP, if you truly are interested in learning about Modern Orthodoxy, I urge you to take a bit of time just to read this page on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_orthodoxy

amother

Olive

Sun, Mar 27 2011, 6:17 pm

I just want to add one point: There are many people that identify themselves as MO, but in truth are not religious and don't keep shabbos either.

I have one such friend. After a string of long-term boyfriends, she finally underwent invitro fertilization and just had a baby boy.

This makes it very confusing, because my friend grew up Orthodox and would never attend a conservative or reform temple, so she identifies as MO but doesn't keep anything (but she did giver her son a bris).

Last edited by amother on Sun, Jan 03 2016, 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total

Capitalchick

Sun, Mar 27 2011, 7:06 pm

OPINIONATED wrote:

This 'labeling' issue is common in the Jewish world. The MO community shouldn't, of course, be faulted for your friend's failure to properly 'label' herself (not that we all have an obligation to label ourselves). The biggest victim of this 'mislabeling' is the Reform Jewish movement. There are many people who truly believe in the philosophy of Reform Judaism. They are committed Reform Jews, just as we are committed Orthodox Jews. They keep religious laws in the manner which they truly believe to be correct. And then there are the other 90% of people who call themselves "Reform", who've never attended a Reform service, know nothing about the philosophy and don't identify with much Jewish at all. So then you end up with people thinking that Reform Judaism is just a scam and a label for people who are totally irreligious. For those few who really do believe in the teachings of Reform Judaism, for instance, it's a sad thing.

shnitzel

Sun, Mar 27 2011, 8:02 pm

I think we are philosophically MO. We ask shailos when uncertain about halacha, I wear a sheitel and stockings even in the summer, DH wears a velvet yarmulke and a black hat on shabbos. We follow MO Rabbis who are all well learned and make Torah their lives and dress the way DH does but we do not believe the Torah is literal and we believe a college education is important and that questioning hashkafa is important. We do not believe being machmir is better and that someone paskening in a lenient manner is not wrong just because he hold the halacha is lenient. I don't think our way is the only way or that the outside world is a terrible place.

nylon

Sun, Mar 27 2011, 8:06 pm

OPINIONATED wrote:

This makes it very confusing, because my friend grew up Orthodox and would never attend a conservative or reform temple, so she identifies as MO but doesn't keep anything (but she did giver her son a bris).

This is a North American problem.

In other countries, the shul you attend (when you bother) is independent of your observance level. There are countries where you'll see lots of people parking around the corner on Shabbat. Depending on the country (terms vary) these people may describe themselves as Orthodox or they may not, but they won't call themselves religious/observant/etc.

In this case it's problematic because MO isn't just a shul membership, it's affiliation with a specific philosophy. If I happened to start attending a Chabad house, I wouldn't call myself Chabad, either.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Mar 28 2011, 12:54 am

nylon wrote:

OPINIONATED wrote:

This is totally true. my husband who grew up in south africa and not orthodox the way someone from north america would define it but modern orthodox nonetheless. his parents drive to shul, it is a completely modern orthodox kehilla. most shuls there have people driving to shul and people who really are not affiliated with too much to do with judaism but when they do have something to do, it is with an orthodox kehilla.

Ruchel

Mon, Mar 28 2011, 7:38 am

Definitely in OOT Europe you can call yourself Orthodox because you wouldn't go to a reform or massorti shul only.

In bigger kehilot nowadays, especially younger generations, you have to be shomer shabbes & kashrus at least the "bare boned" halacha... if not you're traditionalist for example.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Mar 28 2011, 2:23 pm

Ruchel wrote:

but those traditional jews would still probably go to an orthodox shul, right? I would consider my in laws traditional (in their world, in mine I would consider them non practicing) but they only go to an orthodox shul. they would never think of going to a reform or conservative one, ever.

Ruchel

Mon, Mar 28 2011, 2:34 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

Same. That's why you can have a full shul and no shomer shabbes guy (unless there is a rabbi).

Now, finding a non Orthodox shul isn't easy in Europe, so it also helps...

shnitzel

Mon, Mar 28 2011, 2:36 pm

My New York MO shul has plenty of traditional Jews who would never join a Conservative or Reform shul but will talk on the phone in shul on High Holidays and before DH was frum his family (in Canada) would never have dreamed of going anywhere but an Orthodox shul. Most of that MO congregation wasn't frum. So I think having non-frum people in MO shuls is a pretty worldwide phenomenon and a great kiruv opportunity.

amother

Mon, Mar 28 2011, 2:56 pm

shnitzel wrote:

Unless you know why they're on the phone, you can't decide whether or not its problematic.

I've seen frum doctors take emergency calls in shul on yom tov.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Mar 28 2011, 3:23 pm

shnitzel wrote:

except, I have to disagree that I dont think that it is a worldwide phenomenon.
It may be in a lot of places, but I never heard of such a thing before I met my husband.
My parent's shul did not have tradition jews coming to daven. It was purely orthodox jews.